Well would ya look at that. No PFDs or even worse fall arresting devices.
What did they know then that we don't now.
Here is something that may stir some debate...'no pfd'..
- Thread starter Chris Patterson
- Start date
To be fair, I could find plenty of classic videos of people doing dangerous things that we now wouldn't do because people died. "It said used to be that way" doesn't make it a good idea necessarily.
Good point Davidsailor26. But it begs the question, why do we even sail? Surely we could enjoy a motor powered vessel equally enjoyable. For me at least matching wits with nature is what draws me to sailing. Staying sharp and not taking anything for granted along with the inherent risk sailing offers are the essence of living in microcosm. These are rare enough reasons to sail, free climb, back country ski or what have you. Yes, Mr. Death could come calling any time. He will call on each of us at some point. It remains ours to spend all our time trying to avoid that destiny or say the hell with it and live. "And that has made all the difference."
Well those that don't and have fallen overboard are presumably not talking. Second item makes your body easier to find. My PFD has a little blinky light on it and I also have a PLB (hopefully will be found before I am at corpse stage) But there are certainly enough humans so I wouldn't over worry about this.
The sailing club suggests wearing a PFD and tether when you are alone on deck, after dark or in limited visibility situations, or when the wind is over 20 knots. It's pretty sensible, I think, and follow these guide lines. On a normal day this leaves you in clothing of the day and untethered. If a child is on deck and the boat is moving I like them to be wearing a PFD. There is always at least two throwables on deck. I also keep a BELL throwable life line on deck.
https://lrse.com/B.E.L.L.-Throw-Line.html
https://lrse.com/B.E.L.L.-Throw-Line.html
One thing that occurred to me about this thread. People say things like "if I am singlehanded, I don't want to float around and 'die an extended death' because my PFD kept me floating/alive longer than I would have otherwise."
I think that is flawed logic.
If you have a PFD when you go MOB, and you find yourself in that situation (floating for hours/days with no assistance around), why not ... remove the PFD!
However the converse does not apply; you go overboard and do not have a PFD, you can't simply unstrap it to change the scenario. I'd rather have that choice, than not have that choice. Plus, who doesn't want to live even a little bit longer?
Someone please enlighten me and correct my flawed logic.
I think that is flawed logic.
If you have a PFD when you go MOB, and you find yourself in that situation (floating for hours/days with no assistance around), why not ... remove the PFD!
However the converse does not apply; you go overboard and do not have a PFD, you can't simply unstrap it to change the scenario. I'd rather have that choice, than not have that choice. Plus, who doesn't want to live even a little bit longer?
Someone please enlighten me and correct my flawed logic.
Marke very sensible advice. Somewhere recently on this site is the story of a guy that drowned in a lake pushing his boat off a shoal. No PFD and apparently not a great swimmer. From the sounds of it he would still be with us if he had worn a PFD.
What if you get separated from your boat without your pfd... but you can't tread water long enough to get rescued because of an injury. The rescue boat may be on the way.... but.. you're too noble to wear a PFD because you prefer a quick death by drowning than getting a little cold and uncomfortable but with a chance of survival. marke14 is exactly right.... if you have given up hope... slip out of the pfd and meet your maker.... at least with it on.. you have the option.
That was a very odd story. Didn't it occur in Kansas? (I also agree with Marke).
How was it that there was another fellow on the boat and he couldn't offer any assistance AND the authorities couldn't find the body? Did they find the body later? I don't remember any follow-up to the story and it seemed like there were a lot of questions which couldn't be explained. I remember wondering if he got swallowed up in quick sand ...
How in the world does an adult simply disappear from a sand bar when there is another adult on the boat? Even if there wasn't any foul play or un-natural occurrence, I would never look at this incident and say "see, this could happen to me". It was simply too implausible for me to relate to it.
That said, I do have to change my habits. Last weekend, I made numerous trips to the mast and bow without life jacket or tether and I was single-handing. On Lake Hopatcong, I never felt threatened because I can swim to shore even in the colder water of May or October, I never had to contend with waves, and other boaters are always close by. On Barnegat Bay last Sunday, the water was cold enough and the distance to shore was far enough to be very dangerous if I fell overboard. The bay was mostly empty, so I was definitely conscious about the danger, and making dead certain that I wasn't losing any handhold outside the cockpit. I spent as much time as possible on hands and knees when on the bow, even though waves were still not an issue, even at 20+ knots of wind.
The PFD's I currently have on board are for show, and I'm not going to actually wear them because it is simply too awkward to wear water ski vests over clothing. I definitely will get new PFD's for Sue, me and guests and be sure to wear them when conditions warrant. I have to work out the tether thing for single-handing and I'm not sure yet how it will be rigged. New habits to begin next season!
Scott.... the harness and tether are more important to me than the pfd when single handing. Simply look for secure attachment points to clip into... rather than rigging jacklines for a daysail. I suggest a folding padeye in the cockpit floor and a regular padeye somewhere on cabin top that will get you to the mast. I use the foredeck padeye that serves to anchor the spin pole foreguy when I go to the bow.... The tether's six foot length will give you adequate radius so that very few attachment points are needed. I have also clipped on to windward shrouds for working around themast. Finally... if it gets choppy.. don't be afraid to crawl or skootch along on your butt if you're the least bit uncertain of your balance.
http://www.sailfeed.com/2015/11/me-culp-when-it-comes-to-pfds/
Guess the flood of hate mail was just too much.
Guess the flood of hate mail was just too much.
I still waiting for someone from Texas or South Fla to say they wear a pfd, in the summer.
I wore one on the fll eyw race but it was in January and a cool 85 degrees at the 1pm start.
when its 98 degrees I don't even want to wear a shirt.
Thankfully we are still able to risk our own life without government intervention.
I wore one on the fll eyw race but it was in January and a cool 85 degrees at the 1pm start.
when its 98 degrees I don't even want to wear a shirt.
Thankfully we are still able to risk our own life without government intervention.
Yeah, the guy got lit UP, didn't he?? The crowd was calling him everything but a white man, and I think I heard murmuring about ropes and trees, or some such.
I thought it was a little extreme, to be honest.
While the advice often given in these kinds of threads is to make sure you don't fall overboard, I've known a few people who have gone over the side -- and none of them did it on purpose. Stuff happens on boats and the best advice I can offer is to think about and prepare for the worst. I keep being amazed (I amaze easily) at how many boats I see with swim ladders up and locked to the pushpit with no way to drop them if you were a solo sailor who, for whatever reason, found yourself in the water and looking up at the stern of your boat. "Say goodnight, Gracie."
I was solo on a calm flat day, under low power and autopilot while I flaked the main. I stepped off the cabin top onto the jib lead, rolled my ankle and fell onto the lifelines. I held on, only just stopping myself from flipping head over heels into the water. The conditions couldn't have been calmer. You could argue that you take more care when it's rougher, but that scared me enough that I immediately went to the local West Marine and bought a pair of inflatable life slings, and wear one every time I'm alone.
Yeah, the question of how to get back aboard after hitting the water, assuming the boat does not get away, is an interesting one. The Bavaria has a reverse (sugar scoop) transom and swim "platform" with a swim ladder that folds up when not deployed. When up, the ladder is not latched to anything; it just "rests" in its position. It would nevertheless be hard to get it deployed reaching for it from a position at eye-level with the stern rub rail at the waterline. Trailing 25' of 9/16" to 5/8" floating polypropylene line knotted in a few places along the way would help haul it down if caught. Holding on if the boat is moving even slowly, however, would be next to impossible and would not end well in any event. At 2 kt (1 m/s) the force on you would be around 100 lb, possibly more. In cold water, I doubt one would even last even 10 min being towed through the water. Better to let go, push the button, and keep still until rescue arrives.
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Bought a nice autoinflatable jacket. Reason I bought it is simply because I figured if the jacket was comfortable enough I might actually wear it. If at all possible I just don't go out in seas that are rough enough to wash me out of a cockpit.
But I figure who knows. Heck I've been walking on land and stumble over a crack in a sidewalk. On that boat that stumble could very well throw me overboard.
It's one of those things like insurance, first aid kit, emergency radio, flares, throw cushins. These are things we have that we hope we will NEVER have to use. If I paid a bunch of money on all this stuff and NEVER used it I'd be pretty happy.
At the same time the best life jacket in the world aint gonna do diddly if you don't have it on.
I've driven for near 50 years now and have still never had an accident (more than backing into the garage door) it doesn't mean I don't wear my seatbelt and that I wish new cars didn't have airbags.
If ya don't want to wear it so be it it's only you that will suffer if you have a slip and fall dunking watching your boat with autopilot sail away.
But I figure who knows. Heck I've been walking on land and stumble over a crack in a sidewalk. On that boat that stumble could very well throw me overboard.
It's one of those things like insurance, first aid kit, emergency radio, flares, throw cushins. These are things we have that we hope we will NEVER have to use. If I paid a bunch of money on all this stuff and NEVER used it I'd be pretty happy.
At the same time the best life jacket in the world aint gonna do diddly if you don't have it on.
I've driven for near 50 years now and have still never had an accident (more than backing into the garage door) it doesn't mean I don't wear my seatbelt and that I wish new cars didn't have airbags.
If ya don't want to wear it so be it it's only you that will suffer if you have a slip and fall dunking watching your boat with autopilot sail away.
Well we have all heard the anecdotal, "I had a friend who knew a guy that had a brother in law," stories. Here is a little link to some hard fast numbers: http://www.pfdma.org/ Even though the 'research' is sloppy at best and full of Post hoc fallacy to the point of being one step above worthless and would be laughed out of any serious research publication it is a good place to examine what is known. Guess what? The job of any manufacturer's organization is to convince you that you need something that will generate sales. Then they lobby to have laws enacted to compel sales. Nice racket if you can pull it off. Observe in their 'study' how rare fatalities are and just what types of boats suffer the most. Hint: Ain't what we're doing. How many of these same victims were stewed to the gills or stoned to the bejeepers? How many were motorboats? What else were these folks doing that put them in the water? These 'studies' do one thing and one thing only, that is to scare the hell out of you to the point you buy their latest greatest keep you safe gadget. I agree with the author's assertion in his article. Think for yourself as to when and if you don a PFD. Let's keep the mindless obedience ashore as in the end the more you think the better off you will be.
Purchase and use of just about all safety equipment share the same issues for recreational boaters. How likely is it that an individual boater (you) who spends maybe 15 to 20 days a year on the water away from dock will fall in and drown b/c of not having on a lifejacket in a given year? Not likely. But how likely is it that one to few of the thousands of boaters spending 15 to 20 days a year on the water away from the dock will fall in and drown b/c of not having on a lifejacket in a given year? Happens every year it seems, so the likelihood is CERTAINTY! The USCG knows that every year it will have to pull victims from the water who drown from not wearing the jacket. There's your impetus to try to get all boaters to buy and wear jackets. The people who supply that market of course make bucks, but so do the seatbelt manufacturers, etc.