Help! What's going on with this Mast and Mast Step - Catalina 22' - 1971

[Carl Wonderful]

I purchases a 1971 Catalina 22 few days ago. I'm new to sailing so I must have overlooked the very strange mast and mast step. Honestly, I assumed there was another piece that went over what I'm seeing here but there was no other piece. The rest of boat looked really good and got it for a good deal. The owner had passed away 4 years ago so the family didn't know much about the boat. They seemed honest and said the owner sailed up until he got sick then had to store the boat after that so it seemed the boat should be in close to sailing condition or at least nothing seriously wrong. The owner was a very meticulous guy and rest of boat was kept great shape and it didn't seemed like he Jerry rigged stuff up....but this mast is freakin' me out.

I cant seem to find anything even close online to this mast step with the metal cylinder and/or a mast what lacks the holes for a bolt to go through like most other masts... The Mast itself has me totally confused at what happened and even how it is now rigged up.

Help guys!
Thanks,
Jaison

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Carl Wonderful:

Wow. This is only speculation but the pictures tell the story. Your mast step has been sheered off and with the repair to the mast it leads me to believe that the mast has been shortened to mitigate bottom damage. The accepted repair for damaging the bottom of your mast is to place a support on the bottom of the mast to preserve the designed length measurements. Catalina Direct sells these mast shims. It also appears that the long starboard side wood screw may be utilizing the original bolt hole for the mast raising alignment bolt but, the band around the bottom of the mast is blocking what should be a receiving bolt hole opposite of that oversized wood screw. It would be worth a closer look to see just how much of the bottom of the mast has been shaved off or, if the mast is still the correct length.

Regardless, the mast step should be replaced. If you could get the hole dimensions from another boat or CD that would help you confirm if your mast is the proper length or not. Then you can decide how to make up for the length deficiency and start the process of getting her ready to sail.

Jaison, I hope this helps. Spend as much time reading past posts and repair posts as you can. There is a lot of knowledge on the this forum.

George

 

[Woodworks1]

You should check up on Catalina direct for mass step replacement and sailboatdata.com for mast Length CATALINA 22 - sailboatdata for mast length.
AI search
2

The mast height of a Catalina 22 varies depending on the model, but the mast from the waterline to the masthead is generally around 28' 6" to 32' 5", with taller rigs also available. Standard rigs typically have a mast around 28' 6", while the larger rigs, like those found on the Catalina Capri 22, can extend to 32' 5" or even 34' 5".

 

[LakeShark]

@Carl Wonderful Thats a jury rig mast raising system. Looks to me like the solid pin your holding mounted to the boat goes inside the sail track slot on the mast that the strengthening strap is bracing (notched area). Then when you raise the mast all the compression force is braced by the stays so its not needed. Likely they dropped the mast at some point and this was the "fix at the time. being that you have an early C22 you originally had a round mast for that step. Later models went to the oval type design. The mast you have pictured seems to not match either of the original designs and was likely a replacement mast at some point.

No worries though you can upgrade the step as suggested and add the 1 inch block or so under the mast base to keep the mast at the correct height. Or depending on how often you step the mast you can just go with what you have. its not the safest but if you only raise and lower once or twice a year with help it can be done. Mast base looks on from your pictures. How is the rest of the boat?

 

[watercolors II]

As stated earlier this has been highly modified.

Image 5999 with the solid short rod matches up with 5993 with the cut out under the sail track to clear this rods attachment to the cabin top. This rod on image 5999 because it can move from horizontal to vertical says it is part of a gin pole raising system (find a pole that fits over this rod) and look up ginpole mast raising system! Also, look for a small flat piece of metal stock that can lay on the cabin top infront of the mast step that the very front bottom of the mast can rest on without damaging the gelcoat in front of the mast step because you will have to raise the mast from the bow with forestay attached and the backstay unattached. This small metal plate will be removed after the mast is up so it is not lost overboard. Trace an image of the bottom of the mast and lay on the deck attached part, the mast will rest out over the front of the deck step.

I see this because of the mast imprint on the cabin top image 5999. Image 5992 and 5993 has two rub marks that look like they rub on the sides of shackle holding the end of the moveable rod to the deck plate. The load on the mast is always forward, so the mast bottom will want to kick towards the stern and that rod setup will help stop the bottom of the mast from moving backwards.

 

[Carl Wonderful]

Thanks so much for the reply's!

I have also talked to (and sent pics to) Catalina Direct about it and also did see their Mast Step plates and also the Shim kit (to make up for lost mast height if needed). They sort of told me to go ahead and try to rais it as long as I thought it wasnt going to come loose or be a danger. That cylinder did go right into the small, aft-cavty of the mast and felt surprisingly sturdy so we went ahead and raied th emast. No problem!?

I had a couple questions regarding the mast height... Can you tell me what the concerns are as far as say, loosing an inch or 2" from the mast. I'm sure there is a good reason, but I cant seem to figure out why it would be so important specifically? Part of why I'm asking is because I ended up putting the mast up as it is now... It actually went really well with just two of us, I was surprised!! Once up and all together, I noticed that (a random half, 2 on port side and 1 on starboard) of my rigging, side stays turnbuckles, seem to be on their last few threads, while the other 3 side stay turn buckles have a good bit of threads into them as I suspect you would want, when tightened Taught (just generally tight, I know I didn't have it perfect).

What I'm thinking is if I end up cutting another 1" from the mast bottom, order a mast step, and drilling side holes in mast, in order to attach it like it is supposed to be, with the long horizontal bolt through the mast and through the "new" mast step holes.... Then I feel like I would actually be in better shape with the 3 side stay turn buckles that ran out of threads, right? If mast is 1" even shorter I should have adequate room to thread those ones and the other ones should still be fine, I'll just tighten them a littler more. I'm sure I'm over simplifying this and missing somehting so please let me know what you think and what I have missed or what I should do from here.

Thanks so much for your time and experience. Greatly appreciated!

You asked how the rest of the boat is.....

The rest of the boat actually looks really good for a 1971, I would say. They said the owner was a dental specialist and very meticulous with all his stuff so no idea how the mast ended up this way??

I did order the upgraded, bigger chainplate kit, as the port side (3 side stay chainplates) were "living" sort of inside the deck instead of on top of it. Looked like he filled in/sealed them with a bunch butyl tape. The deck is a little soft around them and definitly some water damage got in from these old chainplates, but it does not seem horrible and I dont believe I will have to replace that part of the deck right away....maybe soon but I'll keep an eye on it. I htink he new bigger chainplates will hold fine. The starboard side, 3 sidestays loked great inside and out. no softness and no damage inside or out on them.

For the new chaiplates any recommendations on how to seal them...and tips, tricks, adhesives, sealants.? I did order the new butyl tape from cataline direct and heard this works well to seal them mabe?
Also any reccomendations on the "soft" damages port side around the side stays?


Thanks guys!!

 

[dlochner]

If the shrouds are the correct length and both sides are of equal length the turnbuckles should have about equal thread showing. What you are describing is a mast that is not tuned properly.

The mast head should be centered over the boat. A quick way to check is to hang something heavy, a large adjustable wrench will do, from the main halyard, is it centered or does it hang off to the side? To measure more accurately use the main halyard to measure the distance from the masthead to the chain plate on each side, the distances should be equal. Finally lie on your back and sight up the mast, it should be straight without any bends or curves.

 

[Carl Wonderful]

Can anyone tell me if there is a specific problem with taking 1" off of the mast in order to repair the damaged/altered mast... so I can turn it back to something similar to the standard mast, mast step system and end up putting a horizontal bolt through the mast and into a new mast step. And as a sort of (bonus, lol)... As I mentioned I actually think if I have that extra inch than most of my turnbuckles will function better. As they are now most of the turnbuckles can barely get long enough for me to attach them (barely enough threads to stay attached) when the Mast is up.

The other main issue is replacing the chain-plates with the upgraded, larger chain plates from Cataline Direct. I plan to use Catalina Directs new Butyl tape for this also....but wasn't sure If I should add any epoxy in the holes since they are definitive a little rotted in the core.

Any tips, help, info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Carl Wonderful]

If the shrouds are the correct length and both sides are of equal length the turnbuckles should have about equal thread showing. What you are describing is a mast that is not tuned properly.

The mast head should be centered over the boat. A quick way to check is to hang something heavy, a large adjustable wrench will do, from the main halyard, is it centered or does it hang off to the side? To measure more accurately use the main halyard to measure the distance from the masthead to the chain plate on each side, the distances should be equal. Finally lie on your back and sight up the mast, it should be straight without any bends or curves.

I think the last owner had things a little funky as he was getting older and had illness at the end of his sailing, then the boat was stored away for years. The turnbuckles are different kinds/brands/styles... I think the mast is fairly "centered" and think the shrounds are just sloppy and not the correct lengths, but he was sort of making due at the end?

 

[Carl Wonderful]

@Carl Wonderful Thats a jury rig mast raising system. Looks to me like the solid pin your holding mounted to the boat goes inside the sail track slot on the mast that the strengthening strap is bracing (notched area). Then when you raise the mast all the compression force is braced by the stays so its not needed. Likely they dropped the mast at some point and this was the "fix at the time. being that you have an early C22 you originally had a round mast for that step. Later models went to the oval type design. The mast you have pictured seems to not match either of the original designs and was likely a replacement mast at some point.

No worries though you can upgrade the step as suggested and add the 1 inch block or so under the mast base to keep the mast at the correct height. Or depending on how often you step the mast you can just go with what you have. its not the safest but if you only raise and lower once or twice a year with help it can be done. Mast base looks on from your pictures. How is the rest of the boat?

Could you tell me if there is any inherent problem with talking/cutting another 1" or so, off of the mast.. Considering that for some reason it seems that will also help the situation with the stays (turnbuckles) that are so close to out of threads that I can barely attach them as the are.

 

[sailme88]

That step looks bastardized....AND potentially UNSAFE....

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Carl Wonder

Could you tell me if there is any inherent problem with talking/cutting another 1" or so, off of the mast.. Considering that for some reason it seems that will also help the situation with the stays (turnbuckles) that are so close to out of threads that I can barely attach them as the are.

Carl Wonderful:
The more I read your posts, the more concerned I become. Mismatched Turnbuckles, Standing Rigging that is possibly too short and now taking more off the bottom of mast to use your existing rigging leads me to suggest that you need new standing rigging. You have already ordered up the improved chain plates which is a wise investment. I would recommend that you also order up a new standing rigging which will include new turnbuckles. Before placing the order, I'd measure your mast and compare it to the specifications of a 1971 C-22. This will give you an idea of how much is missing and how tall a block will need to be added to the bottom to bring the mast to the original height. Just a thought.

George

 

[Carl Wonderful]

Carl Wonder
Carl Wonderful:
The more I read your posts, the more concerned I become. Mismatched Turnbuckles, Standing Rigging that is possibly too short and now taking more off the bottom of mast to use your existing rigging leads me to suggest that you need new standing rigging. You have already ordered up the improved chain plates which is a wise investment. I would recommend that you also order up a new standing rigging which will include new turnbuckles. Before placing the order, I'd measure your mast and compare it to the specifications of a 1971 C-22. This will give you an idea of how much is missing and how tall a block will need to be added to the bottom to bring the mast to the original height. Just a thought.

George

Yes, I'm being cautions of everything and examining the boat very closely and looking into every inch of it.... replacing any parts that I need to in order to get on the water next year safely.

But I am just so darn curious of this one specific thing that I cant seem to get an answer about. Is it inherently wrong... or any issue with shortening a mast an inch or 2...as long as it makes sense for the side stays/standing rigging. Is there some real, universal reason why would would need your mast to be an exact height other than to match your rigging/stays?

 

[Carl Wonderful]

That step looks bastardized....AND potentially UNSAFE....

Yeah its definitely not great and far from perfect. I have raised the mast several times to test it and it does feel surprisingly sturdy and raised very easily and stood strong...? I plan on most likely still just replacing the mast step with the appropriate plate and possibly taking an inch or 2 off of the mast in order to have a strong base and drill holes for the horizontal bolt to attach as in a proper catalina 22 mast/mast step setup. I'm trying to find out if there is something terribly wrong with this thinking or not. I don't see why a mast that is an inch or 2 shorter would be a big deal (as long as it doesn't make the rigging/stays too long...)but maybe I am ignorant of something. If so please let me know. I love to learn and am trying to understand all of this completely.

 

[dlochner]

A new mast costs thousands of dollars. New rigging costs tens of dollars. Shortening the mast will reduce head room in the cockpit as the boom travels across the cockpit. Doesn't seem like much until it is necessary to duck lower with each tack and jibe.

Replace the rigging.

 

[Carl Wonderful]

A new mast costs thousands of dollars. New rigging costs tens of dollars. Shortening the mast will reduce head room in the cockpit as the boom travels across the cockpit. Doesn't seem like much until it is necessary to duck lower with each tack and jibe.

Replace the rigging.

Well.. the mast had been damaged/altered by the previous owner. If I take 1" off I may end up with a mast that I can make "safe" again and actually connect with a bolt like it originally was meant to do. Also since the rigging is mostly on the "short" side, If I take that 1" orr the mast the side stays should actually fit better than they do now. It seems like I can "get 2 birds stoned at once" this way..lol... No?
The catalinas boom is pretty high compared to other similar boats and I think I can handle just a 1" lower boom if it fixes/ or at lease improves all these other issues. You know what I mean?

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Well.. the mast had been damaged/altered by the previous owner. If I take 1" off I may end up with a mast that I can make "safe" again and actually connect with a bolt like it originally was meant to do. Also since the rigging is mostly on the "short" side, If I take that 1" orr the mast the side stays should actually fit better than they do now. It seems like I can "get 2 birds stoned at once" this way..lol... No?
The catalinas boom is pretty high compared to other similar boats and I think I can handle just a 1" lower boom if it fixes/ or at lease improves all these other issues. You know what I mean?

Please don't be "penny wise and pound foolish". Measure your mast to know exactly what you are dealing with and then, make a decision how to proceed going forward. Based on your posts, your current rigging is a mess. There is no easy way or short cut to fix what you have described. I don't know what you mean, since neither you, nor I know the length of your mast compared to the original intended specification. I do not mean to dissuade you from sailing your new boat but, you can not wish your way to a safe sailing boat without making the needed repairs based on your posts.
George

 

[Carl Wonderful]

Please don't be "penny wise and pound foolish". Measure your mast to know exactly what you are dealing with and then, make a decision how to proceed going forward. Based on your posts, your current rigging is a mess. There is no easy way or short cut to fix what you have described. I don't know what you mean, since neither you, nor I know the length of your mast compared to the original intended specification. I do not mean to dissuade you from sailing your new boat but, you can not wish your way to a safe sailing boat without making the needed repairs based on your posts.
George

I understand that safety is always a high concern and I'm not afraid of spending money to fix what needs fixed. I'm really also trying completely understand sailing and all of its parts. I must think too much outside of the box maybe....

There are a few questions that I just cant seem to wrap my head around and really would love some specific answers, if anyone has any, to things like... what exactly is wrong with a mast that is an inch or 2 shorter than normal? Other than the boom being an inch or 2 shorter.. are there any reasons why a shorter mast is "wrong" or bad or unsafe?

I have stepped the mast again after installing the new 1/2" chain-plate kit and the mast stepped very easily and if very sturdy. Just looking for specifics to a few specific questions here.

I understand that everyone is looking out for safety, and I appreciate that.

 

[BigEasy]

Before you begin modifying the mast length, I would order a set of drawings from Catalina Direct illustrating the details of the OEM mast & step. Also, try to connect with a Catalina 22 owner of your vintage to visualize what the “standard” set up looks like & how it functions. With this information in hand, you will know what to do to return the configuration to factory specs.

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Most folks with this issue try to keep the mast at its original length. I would encourage that as your sails are designed for the mast at its intended length. You are not the first person with this issue, there are plenty of examples on this forum of others who have had similar repairs:

Catalina 22 Sport Mast Repair?

Ahoy, All! My Name is Robert Dobbs and this is my first post. I am the proud new owner of a 2006 Catalina 22 Sport. Like any used sailboat there are a few issues to address. The first issue is, I think, a minor one and I have an idea how to fix it. However, since this is my first Catalina, I...

forums.sailboatowners.com

George