Help buying my first larger sailboat

Kings Gambit · Sep 8, 2015

If I lived in Washington and wanted a cruising boat, max for the money, I'd seriously consider having a look at this one--an Irwin 41 CC w/ recent up grades. As others have said, go large if you can. One "trial" option in my opinion is to go to Cooper Boats in Vancouver, charter w/knowledgable friends for 7 days a boat around 40 ft., then sail to Naniamo, down the Gulf Islands to Salt Spring Island (Ganges Harbor) then back to Vancouver exiting through Porlier Pass and across the Georges Strait, visiting the various anchorages along that route. After planning, and doing, that I guarantee you'll know what you want to do!!

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/198...4519/Gig-Harbor/WA/United-States#.Ve-0W9JdW-g

scotmcpherson · Sep 9, 2015

Flatlander,
What's the basis for your preference of a fractional rig?

peter99ff · Sep 9, 2015

I'd look at ASA or one similar, and it will give you an opportunity to try various boats.
Seems your concerns as others pointed out is cabin height and area of coverage. I'd look at something with moderate work but ready to go out on. As you'll learn what you want, amenities, and how you want it rigged work wise. Everyone has different feelings about central located rigging to the cockpit being useful yet taking away from being familiar with working around the boat up forward. Or time length of your planned cruises. Thats why I suggest ASA so you'll have that advantage to go out while shopping for what works for you.
Good luck and happy cruising.

dhays · Sep 9, 2015

I live in the South Sound and have sailed much of the Salish Sea. FWIW, here are my thoughts.

Draft: If I see a depth of 20 feet I get nervous. My C36 had a depth of about 6', my C400 has a depth of about 7.5. There has never been a place I wanted to go that I couldn't other than the swinomish channel, but they dredged that again a few years ago so I am going to go there soon.

I would strongly suggest that you stay between the 27-36 foot range. Get much above that and moorage costs rise a lot and it is simple a huge jump in learning curve. My 36 still handled and sailed like a dinghy, my 40 foot not so much.

Stu is right about berth size. I am 6'2" and my wife is 5'10. We found the aft cabin in the 36 to be too cramped for us but the forpeak was acceptable. Get something with enough sleeping room for you.

If you don't mind rehabbing old homes then don't be shy of rehabbing old boats. However, a good survey will tell you what the problems are, then check out on the forums to find out how much work and expense it will take to resolve those problems.

Get a boat that performs well. When the weather is warm, there is little wind here. You want a boat that will sail well under those conditions. When the wind picks up, that is when you reef.

There are a lot of older boats that would be well within your budget. While I think the Catalina 36 is one of the best production boats ever designed with probably the most sold and the most supportive and helpful owner base, I would suggest looking for an older Catalina 34. Great boats, sail well, and as Stu mentioned a nice forepeak. Both of those boats are plentiful and affordable for you. Good luck.

Dave

CHARLIE STAGE · Sep 10, 2015

First of all, let me say it took me 2 days to read all of the replies. OUTSTANDING! Now you must go out and choose. I started sailing in an O'Day daysailer 16 foot. I then proceeded upwards boat by boat using approximate waterline length as my guide. My O'Day led to a Pearson Ensign w/@16ft waterline, then to a Catalina 27 @21ft WL and now a Cal 33-2 @27ft WL. I have thoroughly enjoyed the journey. I take exception to the very first comment: "Capta" #2, in that I have some homebuilding skills and especially that I was a jet engine mechanic on the USMC HARRIER. Point being, I have taken those skills and easily maintained and modified all of my boats when and where necessary. Especially in the "engine" department. A jet engine mechanic makes a qualified diesel mechanic. If you have the skills and if you feel up to the challenge of a bigger boat, absolutely go for it. Sail all that you are interested in before you choose just one. Do the research and ask more questions here in the forum. You will be just fine.

Sailing_swede · Sep 12, 2015

scotmcpherson said:
Flatlander,
What's the basis for your preference of a fractional rig?

First of all:
Where is Dailytrek? Isn't a dialogue better than a monologue?
Fractional rig:
How typical will tacking and beating be for Dailytreck?
On an open sea MH will be the best rig but if you have islands and even worse an archipelago like we have in Sweden (where I live) and Finland a fractional rig is better. Tacking and beating with a small jib is very much better than with a max. genua.
Budget:
If we have a total budget of $50 000 at least $15 000 should be reserved for a new motor.
Most likely the boat for this budget will be older than 1985.

Mark Maulden · Sep 13, 2015

If you're ever in Anacortes, id be glad to show ya my S2 36. You mentioned a budget of 50k max..you need to find an older boat that needs updating and do the work yourself. And when you find such..keep in mind the standing rig will probably need replacing and condition of sails and condition of engine and condition of running and do you need heat and do u need an upgraded alternator and well, you know where were going. The S2 has 6'3" from companionway to v-berth however it is not a full keel but it is a very responsive boat. The boat has a very good reputation. In the waters you state, im not sure a full keel would be mandated and same as fractional rig. We bought ours 4 yrs ago ( my second one) and have been using it every summer and then use the winters for major projects like new tanks or rebuilding the engine. I have to do all this work myself. $100/hr just adds up to fast and i then know what i have. This will probably be the last winter and well keep it sailing during the winter. So once you buy"the boat",be prepared for things like leaky tanks. Or OMG, the swages on the shrouds are cracking..etc. i now have our boat up to snuff and have spent about what the boat cost doing it so i would not sell it for 55k. The other side is to find a boat like mine ,condition wise, and pay the price which may slightly exceed ur max price. There is a Spencer 42 for sale in Tacoma. It is a full keel boat that did well in the local race circuits. My only connection is that it was my grandfathers boat (Im 62) and its the boat i learned to sail with. But its supposed to be in good shape. Hope this helps

Sailing_swede · Sep 14, 2015

Portsmouth Yardstick

If you go for a fast sailing boat a yardstick of 80 and lower is possible. Fractional rig is not the only alternative. You have many C&C boats like 33, 34, 35 and 36 feet for sale.

Daveinet · Sep 14, 2015

But if effectively, he is single handing, a fractional rig is less likely to be over powered. Spilling a single sail in a serious gust is easier than have to spill both sails.

Daveinet · Sep 14, 2015

Sailing Texas will give prices of boats sold and what year. Other than that completed listings on eBay.

Kings Gambit · Sep 14, 2015

Boat Buying: It's more art than science; more empirical than theoretical. One doesn't really know what a boat can be had for until putting an offer down on the table, like everything else. Brokers don't really want to discuss hypothetical. They're in the business to sell boats, not discuss them (for long). I was in the market essentially 10 yr before buying the boat I have now (but I had another one to keep me busy at the time.) I was three yr in the market b/f buying that one! CHARTER, as I said prior, if you want to sharpen your "search image." Forget about trying to "price it out." It costs what it costs, and there ain't no gettin' around that!

jzuk · Sep 14, 2015

Depth and knot metre have not changed much.

New VHF's have DSC; read up on them, great addition for safety. I plan on getting one with the built in GPS, hoping I can tie that into my 'Autohelm' auto helm.

I dumped my ancient Loran system that came with the boat and plan to get an IPad (one that could have a cell card in it, they have a GPS) and load up the Navonics app. Got it on my phone now and it's great, specially for a night time dingy ride (where's the boat?).

frimi_captain · Sep 19, 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_Yardstick

Daveinet · Sep 19, 2015

I hate when resources disappear without warning. Here is a list that is not as exhaustive as US sailing, but at least it is open access. A google search on PHRF may bring up others.
http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/base_handicaps
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014 PHRF Handicaps Data.pdf

Sailing_swede · Sep 22, 2015

Interesting data!
What does a negative value mean?
A. The boat is sailing faster than the speed of wind (not normal for keel boats)
B. The rig is so high that the boat is exposed for a higher wind speed than most other boats

Daveinet · Sep 22, 2015

The scale is based on a reference standard of a specific racing boat. I forget what the boat is. Negative numbers are faster than that specific boat.

bffatcat · Sep 23, 2015

buying a larger sailboat

Im a New England sailor and not familiar with your area. I do have over 50 years sailing experience. My comments 1. Do not buy a sailboat that is built to sell for a low price. 2. look for a boat from a well thought of builder. A few examples are Pearson, Bristol, C&C, Tartan.
and finally, I would stay away from those heavy long keel types. example In the 70`s and 80`s the Westsail 32 was very popular boat. You don`t see to many of them any more. The obvious reason: They are very slow. I could go on with a lot more comments, but I will leave it at that Good luck!