The original post was for the Com Pac 23 trailerable sailboat. Lets remember the bigger sailboats can endure heavier conditions so I would tend to keep this geared to the smaller boats gents as that is a different ball of wax say from 35 or 38 foot saiboat
Heavy Weather
- Thread starter Bad Obsession
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Haha. We left Port Washington 3 days ago after being there for 3 days.
I don't think it's Ida but the system off of South Carolina.
Don't like the current weather pattern.
Well, that may be true; and that's fine w/me. However, the post did appear in the Ask All Sailors forum. There's a separate shared forum for Trailer Sailors and one for Smaller Boats in the Hunter Owners forum, etc., to choose from for a narrower range of responses. In any event, the size of the craft is not necessarily what governs whether or not one experiences a perceived condition of "heavy weather" that has to be dealt with IMHO. There are world-cruising pocket cruisers out there in the 20 to 24-ft size range; for example, Pacific Seacraft's Flicka and Dana models to name a couple (but there are others) that might welcome the conditions of a Fresh Breeze, especially if reaching
.Know your boat, know yourself. In a recent thread some good advice was given about listening to your little voice when it tells you things. Finding the mechanical limits of your boat is not a exercise you want to go looking for.
After going for a rip one early April in my sunfish, I discovered a sailboats need for a boom vang. A frightening experience for me, as the boom end met the mast top. It all ended well. When I related the experience to my father later that day, he simply replied " you are ready for another boat ".
Eric
After going for a rip one early April in my sunfish, I discovered a sailboats need for a boom vang. A frightening experience for me, as the boom end met the mast top. It all ended well. When I related the experience to my father later that day, he simply replied " you are ready for another boat ".
Eric
Kings Gambit;
Experience is a good teacher and for most of my life, I sailed mostly trailerable sailboats and as a former sailboat dealer, I sold many lines mostly Hunter and Catalina and others to include the ComPac 23 which I know all too well and what I said is based on experience. In addition I use to sell the full line of Hunters and larger Catalinas not to mention the Beneteaus many years ago. Therefore, what I said stands. As for other forums, this is for Ask All Sailors and I have seen requests for larger boats in the other two you have mentioned over the years. Your Bavaria 38E can withstand heavier seas than a ComPac 23. Above all, experience of any Captain is critical if he uses his wits to come in when he knows not to be out there or is caught and knows what to do.
As for me I have been caught in the Atlantic during a hurricane, anchored and stayed on boats in the Pamlico during hurricanes, and so on. On a funny tune, I even chummed once in the Albermarle during a squall when the owner wanted to pound into the waves going on a straight course. Sent him below and corrected that with a lot less pounding and made better time.
Experience is a good teacher and for most of my life, I sailed mostly trailerable sailboats and as a former sailboat dealer, I sold many lines mostly Hunter and Catalina and others to include the ComPac 23 which I know all too well and what I said is based on experience. In addition I use to sell the full line of Hunters and larger Catalinas not to mention the Beneteaus many years ago. Therefore, what I said stands. As for other forums, this is for Ask All Sailors and I have seen requests for larger boats in the other two you have mentioned over the years. Your Bavaria 38E can withstand heavier seas than a ComPac 23. Above all, experience of any Captain is critical if he uses his wits to come in when he knows not to be out there or is caught and knows what to do.
As for me I have been caught in the Atlantic during a hurricane, anchored and stayed on boats in the Pamlico during hurricanes, and so on. On a funny tune, I even chummed once in the Albermarle during a squall when the owner wanted to pound into the waves going on a straight course. Sent him below and corrected that with a lot less pounding and made better time.
I agree. I used to be a very timid sailor until I got caught out on the Albemarle is heavy chop one day.... After spending an hour motoring and getting pounded by the chop, I put two reefs in the main, and my storm jib up.... and the boat just sliced through the chop. It was a revelation for me.... It was a great (and very wet) sail. Since then I love going out in 15-25 kt wind. If you can keep the boat moving forward under a balanced sail, it is a lot less work and quite exhilarating.
One thing I haven't seen listed here is the effect of temperature and humidity (and atmospheric pressure as well). This affects both the amount of force the wind imparts on the sails as well as your ability to remain comfortable onboard (i.e. do you have the gear / clothing to maintain your body temp and manual dexterity in 30kts of 50°F wind while it's drizzling rain?). These are all factors that need to be considered into your definition and approach to "heavy weather" sailing.
As temperatures drop the air becomes more dense, and as the humidity drops the air becomes more dense. Conversely as air temperatures and humidity levels increase, the air becomes less dense.
That means that a blast of dry cool northern air in the fall blowing 20kts is going to pack a lot more punch than a hot and humid sea breeze mid summer blowing the same 20kts.
For example, on the Bene 36.7 I race we will typically carry our class 155 genoa until 20kts in the summer being somewhat overpowered in the puffs and fully powered up in the lulls. However this time of year as the air temps are on average 20-30 degrees cooler than what we would see at the height of summer, we would normally reduce to the class 105 jib if it is over 16kts, because the same 155 genoa that we will carry in 18-20kts in the summer being only somewhat overpowered, becomes uncontrollable and straight dangerous above 16-18kts in the fall.
I've seen comments claiming that the difference between 20kts in the winter (i.e. frostbiting) and 20kts in the summer can be as much as 20% difference in actual force being imparted on the sails.
lift = 0.5 x air density x wing area x coefficient of lift x velocity squared
Air density is essentially the sum of 3 variables, temperature, barometric pressure, and humidity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air
someone smarter than I can plug all the numbers in provide the specifics...
As temperatures drop the air becomes more dense, and as the humidity drops the air becomes more dense. Conversely as air temperatures and humidity levels increase, the air becomes less dense.
That means that a blast of dry cool northern air in the fall blowing 20kts is going to pack a lot more punch than a hot and humid sea breeze mid summer blowing the same 20kts.
For example, on the Bene 36.7 I race we will typically carry our class 155 genoa until 20kts in the summer being somewhat overpowered in the puffs and fully powered up in the lulls. However this time of year as the air temps are on average 20-30 degrees cooler than what we would see at the height of summer, we would normally reduce to the class 105 jib if it is over 16kts, because the same 155 genoa that we will carry in 18-20kts in the summer being only somewhat overpowered, becomes uncontrollable and straight dangerous above 16-18kts in the fall.
I've seen comments claiming that the difference between 20kts in the winter (i.e. frostbiting) and 20kts in the summer can be as much as 20% difference in actual force being imparted on the sails.
lift = 0.5 x air density x wing area x coefficient of lift x velocity squared
Air density is essentially the sum of 3 variables, temperature, barometric pressure, and humidity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air
someone smarter than I can plug all the numbers in provide the specifics...
I used to be a very BOLD sailor until I got caught by a gale at Pt. Conception. There's no such thing as "too much sail" downwind was my motto. The sky went dark and the wind went from 15 to 45 Kts. like someone flipped a switch. Started reefing the main at 20 but it was over 30 when I finished so I dropped the main. Surfed over night with just a scrap of jib showing. I still remember breathing a big sigh of relief when the wind gauge started dropping back into the 30's. My crew, incapacitated by seasickness, said they thought I'd flipped because I was standing on the helm seat singing "Blow the man down" and dancing. The reality was I was falling asleep on my feet and starting to hallucinate a little and was trying to stay awake. At O dark hundred I was just steering by the needle on the wind gauge only I saw it as a piece of pie. Every now and then I'd jolt fully awake and realize my piece of pie was either getting too big or too small and correct.
At 40kts. I turn downwind and run for shelter screaming like a little girl being chased by the boogey man.
At 40kts. I turn downwind and run for shelter screaming like a little girl being chased by the boogey man.
Surviving heavy conditions is only part of the equation. My original hypothesis stated that heavy weather, the very definition itself, depends on Man, Moment, and Machine.
Here is the thing that I find. When the wind kicks up the conditions can become more dangerous. A fully crewed blue water sailing yacht would be much more at home in 25 knots in 4 foot Chesapeake Bay Waves versus me single handed in a Compac 23. I would say that being in the smaller Compac 23 out in 4 foot waves in 25 knots is a bit dangerous. My Compac 23 in those conditions would be far better than a lighter displacement water ballast boat, in my opinion.
None the less, we each have our own definition of heavy weather. The other thought is how do you let that definition decide how/where you sail.
On my last trip knowing the forecast I stayed on the Windward side of the Potomac River instead of venturing out into the Chesapeake Bay as I had first planned to do. In my older boat, my Catalina 30, I would have probably made the same decision. I would rather be comfortable than on my ears beating into rough weather. The decision may have been a different one if I was pushed for time and I had to make my way back home.
Oh, one person hit the nail on the head. It seems, to me, that carrying some bit of sail is far better than trying to motor into bad weather. The boat is much more stable under sail.
Here is the thing that I find. When the wind kicks up the conditions can become more dangerous. A fully crewed blue water sailing yacht would be much more at home in 25 knots in 4 foot Chesapeake Bay Waves versus me single handed in a Compac 23. I would say that being in the smaller Compac 23 out in 4 foot waves in 25 knots is a bit dangerous. My Compac 23 in those conditions would be far better than a lighter displacement water ballast boat, in my opinion.
None the less, we each have our own definition of heavy weather. The other thought is how do you let that definition decide how/where you sail.
On my last trip knowing the forecast I stayed on the Windward side of the Potomac River instead of venturing out into the Chesapeake Bay as I had first planned to do. In my older boat, my Catalina 30, I would have probably made the same decision. I would rather be comfortable than on my ears beating into rough weather. The decision may have been a different one if I was pushed for time and I had to make my way back home.
Oh, one person hit the nail on the head. It seems, to me, that carrying some bit of sail is far better than trying to motor into bad weather. The boat is much more stable under sail.
For sure.
Last time I crossed the GOM, Tarpon to Apalachicola, I wound up dropping the main around 2300(after first reefing) and doing 10 hours at 5 knots ,broad off, under my working jib alone. Some times I could see the entire bottom of the dinghy, some times I couldn't see it at all. And it was snugged to the transom. No way I was motoring:neutral: Oh, and I was single hand
Pic shot at daylight, after a LONG night
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And even that is not universally true. I've been out on Lake MI with a light sailboat with no ballast. 4 foot waves, small craft advisory, and I had an absolute blast. A light boat will have less load on the sails, because the force of the wind moves the boat faster, as long as the boat sails well.
I dunno its all pretty subjective - my definition of heavy weather certainly differs from the admirals....
Anytime a boat is on its ear when beating I can almost guarantee it needs new sails.
Being on your ears doesn't mean you need new sails, it means you are carrying too much. Reef down.
My boat sails best if kept below 15 degrees since it is a shoal keel. I reef earlier when I carry the 150 and with the 110 I reef in anything over 15 knots. In 20 knots I am reefed with part of the 110 rolled up. I can carry that to about 25 knots. This doesn't taken into account wave action. My boat has low freeboard.
My boat sails best if kept below 15 degrees since it is a shoal keel. I reef earlier when I carry the 150 and with the 110 I reef in anything over 15 knots. In 20 knots I am reefed with part of the 110 rolled up. I can carry that to about 25 knots. This doesn't taken into account wave action. My boat has low freeboard.
I'm not all that concerned about the wind till it is at least 30 knots, and even then it depends on my point of sail to it.
I'm much more concerned about the waves, but it is hard to say when it becomes rough as the height is only important along with its' frequency. I would be more OK with 15 foot seas that are 20 seconds apart than 5 foot seas that are 3 seconds apart!
I'm much more concerned about the waves, but it is hard to say when it becomes rough as the height is only important along with its' frequency. I would be more OK with 15 foot seas that are 20 seconds apart than 5 foot seas that are 3 seconds apart!
That is true, about the wave period. Where I sail, the Chesapeake Bay, is famous for brutal waves that are short and steep. If the wind goes against the current it is ugly.
Well I assumed you'd be reefed.
Excess healing you can't get rid of is caused by not being able to de-power your sails. Almost always, that means too much draft that you cannot flatten. Assuming you're done all you can, that means old blown out sails. Sadly many people don't know what that looks like, because they've never actually seen new sails on their boat.