Headsail alone vs. Main

[YVRguy]

I need to move my boat this week and that will involve a 5 hour stretch across open water. Based on the forecast it looks like I'll have a 25kt wind on the stern quarter. I'm thinking of leaving the main down and using just the headsail for two reasons: First, I'll be on a broad reach and depending on the exact direction of the wind I may need to contend with the main blocking the headsail. Second, I'll be single handing and the thought of going on deck in 25kt winds to add a reef or mess with preventers is not appealing.

My question is, what are the relative merits of sailing with headsail alone? Or just the main? Or should you always strive to use both and trim accordingly in order to better balance the boat?

FYI I have a Hunter 34 and she is a little tender. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I've yet to find a way to sail her comfortably in 25 knots of wind - at least on a reach.

 

[Brian D]

I moved this to Sail Trim with Don Guillette because I believe his input will also be of value. He might not see it in Ask All Saliors.

 

[Kermit]

Neither of which will avoid arguments from starting.

 

[Brian D]

If running with headsail alone, wouldn't the boat have a tendency to try and head to weather? I have sailed under normal condition with headsail alone, but I did it for training, practice my sail trim.

 

[CptnRn]

In my opinion you should use the mainsail but reef it down before you leave the dock. It is much easier to control a mainsail on a boom, with only one sheet to control. Plus you can easily do all sorts of things to depower the sail such as moving the traveler downwind or easing the vang to add more twist to the sail, spilling wind.

Sailing with headsail alone in strong winds gives you a very unbalanced rig because the sail area is so far forward in the sail plan, you get lots of lee helm (wind pressure makes the boat turn leeward, away from the wind). This makes steering difficult and gets worse the more you furl the sail as the wind builds. Furling makes the sail area, center of effort, move forward more when you have no main to balance it.

I had a Hunter 27 for several years that had terrible lee helm balance. Even with full main sail up, she would strongly turn away from the wind in gusts. No matter what direction you were steering, the helm was easily over powered to leeward in a gust. My H27 was unmanageable in the frequent gusty conditions we have around here, so I sold her and bought a Pearson 28. The difference in how the P28 sailed was amazing, it made me love going out in strong winds that overpowered most sailboats, just to enjoy playing with that wind power and speed.

 

[CptnRn]

Not sure what you mean by to weather. To me "Weather Helm" means the sail plan keeps trying to turn the boat up into the wind in a gust, turning it towards the wind or weather direction.

With headsail alone the sail plan will have lee helm, tending to turn the boat leward, away from the wind.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Different boats balance differently. But in general I think you would do just fine with jib only on that point of sail and I'd seriously consider it.

 

[Brian D]

I would think opposite. With the wind pushing against the headsail, it would want to lift the sail up and cause the boat to head up (to weather). I am trying to imagine how the sail would push the boat to lee, but you could be very right. Personally I don't know. I do remember that I had no issues when I was just under headsail alone. But the wind was not strong either.

 

[CptnRn]

I would think opposite. With the wind pushing against the headsail, it would want to lift the sail up and cause the boat to head up (to weather). I am trying to imagine how the sail would push the boat to lee, but you could be very right. Personally I don't know. I do remember that I had no issues when I was just under headsail alone. But the wind was not strong either.

Think of a boat as a wind vane which pivots around the keel. Larger sail area forward of the keel pushes the bow away from the wind, leeward, while a larger sail area aft of the keel pushes the bow more to windward.

 

[Allan12210]

Speaking from experience with the same boat for 31 years I offer the following to what we do in the SF Bay:

For a broad reach in the 25 knot range, 2 reefs in the main before leaving the dock (as posted above). I run the traveller all the way to leeward and vang it down to keep the main from touching the spreaders. I have a 110 jib with a foam luff. I always leave two wraps around the forestay and keep the genoa cars in the fully deployed position allowing the top to twist off, spilling some of the air. You should be in for a fun, fast ride in those conditions where the boat should actually start surfing. We were in a race a few years back in those same conditions where we only had the full main up. The boat kept rounding up, but we weren't about to put the jib back out. In retrospect, we should have. The jib would have helped a lot with balance. As it was, that was a perfect direction for our boats and we won the race after 10 hours like that between Half Moon Bay and Moss Landing. We (my wife and I) consistently hit nearly 12 knots with 6 foot seas. If you end up sailing above a beam reach in those conditions, we have found dropping the main entirely still moves us at hull speed and no issues with lee helm. Too bad I can't go with you. It would be fun.

P.S. for safety's sake, a boom brake or preventer is appropriate as well. Once we started to surf there was less for the rudder to bite into and the waves tended to swing the stern around and we accidentally gybed a bunch of times. Then we would round up big time. Its important to keep that boom under control. We finally figured out how to anticipate the following seas and make small preemptive corrections with the wheel to continue our desired course. If you can avoid any gybing (even intentional) under those conditions while sailing alone I would recommend that. If necessary do a "Chicken Gybe" instead (head up and tack then fall off again to no more than a broad reach).

 

[CptnRn]

I'm sorry YVRguy, I read your post to quickly and thought the wind would be off the beam. For general sailing with the wind coming from the beam or variable directions, I think you are better off with just the mainsail. But if you are going to be heading downwind almost the entire way, very little tacking, then I don't see a problem with using only the jib. Sail balance is a minor issue if you are going primarily downwind. Although I have heard some people argue that sailing with just the jib in high winds is not a good storm tactic as it can put a lot of pressure on only the back stay to support the mast. If your rigging is in good condition I don't see that as being a problem.

 

[JamesG161]

Once we started to surf there was less for the rudder to bite into and the waves tended to swing the stern around and we accidentally gybed a bunch of times.

That is the key!

Under sail or under power.
Jim...

 

[rardiH36]

On San Francisco Bay, mid/large boats frequently are sailing in all directions in strong winds on only the jib.

I normally do both sails, with the main on the second reef. Then take a few turns (or not) of the jib on the furler depending on the conditions. But more frequently of late, because my wife has become a bit fragile, I might roll out only the jib. The boat sails predictably and sail control is much simplified. From what I have read about sailing with only one sail, fractional rigged boats tend to do better with only the main. Masthead rigged boats generally will do much better with only the jib. And even within each category, I suppose each boat model is different.

My 1980 Hunter 36 sails terrible into the wind with only the main. Can't get anywhere near to a close haul. And the speed is sluggish. But with only the jib, the boat moves right along at all points of sail. If the wind is blowing strong (say +20kts) hull speed is reached. I still have a noticeable whether helm with the boat rounding into the wind. Another advantage of jib only is that it can be furled and unfurled at will from the safety of the cockpit.

Maybe you can PM a few Hunter 34 owners to ask for their experiences?

 

[Stu Jackson]

it looks like I'll have a 25kt wind on the stern quarter.

The wind is coming from aft of the beam. Keep you main down and run with just the jib. I am one of those guys who runs a boat on SF Bay, too, and often go BOTH upwind and down on just the JIB (110 or summer 85). I personally disagree with anyone who recommends using ANY bit of mainsail for your planned voyage.

 

[YVRguy]

Thanks folks. Plenty to go on here but I'm getting the overall message that on a broad reach the gib alone should be fine. I will likely double reef the main at the dock but leave it down unless I need more power or balance.

One related question: My mainsail has 3 reef-points (3 extra cringles but only two reefing lines. The first cringle is very close to the foot and would seem to make minimal difference so I generally ignore it and use the 2nd and 3rd cringles, with the two reefing lines respectively. Is the first reef point meant to be used without a reefing line? When people refer to a "double reefed" sail, I'm not sure whether to count that first one that is so close to the foot. Make sense?

 

[Allan12210]

....... some people argue that sailing with just the jib in high winds is not a good storm tactic as it can put a lot of pressure on only the back stay to support the mast. If your rigging is in good condition I don't see that as being a problem.

Luckily on these mid 80s B&R rigs all the rigging except the forestay is behind the mast (swept back spreaders) and there is still a backstay. With that, there is plenty of support providing sound rigging for following winds. You'll know when there is too much sail as it's just too hard to drive. The drawback to the swept back spreaders I've encountered is that with the high aspect main we have, it can't be squared off to the spreaders so unreefed it acts like its always over trimmed and rounds up from broad reaches to DDW. Just too efficient on a light air boat once it starts blowing. Hence the need to reef way early. Also the high aspect design (short boom/tall mast) is why the boat is not that great on the main alone. All good points by the other posters but the design of the boat has to be accounted for because they all perform differently.

YVR guy, You can always have the main set up for two reefs and raise it if you're not happy with the speed. If it becomes too much, this boat heaves too easily and you can drop it back down. Rig a downhaul to avoid going forward. Also, I forgot, we find the reef lines tend to slip through the stock jammers so I always tie a piece of webbing through the 2nd reef clew and around the boom as well. It keeps the foot down and stretched flat.

 

[Allan12210]

Thanks folks. Plenty to go on here but I'm getting the overall message that on a broad reach the gib alone should be fine. I will likely double reef the main at the dock but leave it down unless I need more power or balance.

One related question: My mainsail has 3 reef-points (3 extra cringles but only two reefing lines. The first cringle is very close to the foot and would seem to make minimal difference so I generally ignore it and use the 2nd and 3rd cringles, with the two reefing lines respectively. Is the first reef point meant to be used without a reefing line? When people refer to a "double reefed" sail, I'm not sure whether to count that first one that is so close to the foot. Make sense?

The first spot is the flattening reef. Note its only at the back of the sail (leech). Its just to pull the pocket out of the sail after the wind goes from next to nothing to a few knots. It is not counted. The next two are the first and second reef points. Note there is a matching clew at the luff as well. Both of mine are rigged. Here in the SF Bay I use the first reef at about 13 knots and need the second reef at 13.1 knots. We hardly ever use the 1st reef around here.


You beat me to the punch on having the reefed main ready to go if needed.

 

[shemandr]

.... The boat kept rounding up, ..... Once we started to surf there was less for the rudder to bite into and the waves tended to swing the stern around and we accidentally gybed a bunch of times. Then we would round up big time.

This is not acceptable for single handed sailing in a breeze. It's not safe.

 

[Jackdaw]

Think of a boat as a wind vane which pivots around the keel. Larger sail area forward of the keel pushes the bow away from the wind, leeward, while a larger sail area aft of the keel pushes the bow more to windward.

Wrong.

 

[CptnRn]

Wrong.

It is simple physics, how can that be wrong? Please explain yourself. These articles agree with me.

Lee Helm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_helm
Weather Helm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_helm
This one repeats the weather vane analogy. http://www.schoolofsailing.net/weather-helm-and-lee-helm.html

And another: http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/balance.html

Diagram: http://johnellsworth.com/writing/nautical/balance_helm/fig1.jpg