Haul Out - Help with my shaft - SoCal

[jonelli]

Hey All,
I'm doing my haul out first weekend of May in a DIY yard in SoCal. Besides painting, which I don't really need any help with, I plan on swapping out the cutlass bearing and the PSS shaft seal. The PSS seal is due, and since I've got to release the shaft to do it, I figure I might as well do the cutlass too, so they are both on the same maintenance schedule.
I am assuming I'll be able to get the transmission coupler off using either the socket method or buying the $50 tool on CD. Either way, I have options there.
For the cutlass bearing though, if I don't pull the shaft all the way out, I'll need one of those big expensive bearing tools I've seen all over the interwebs for $400.
So... two questions:
1 - If I'm already disconnecting the shaft at the engine for the PSS seal change, AND I'm already taking the prop off to install a new cutlass bearing, is there any reason I shouldn't just plan on sliding the shaft all the way out? Will it be easier to deal with the cutlass bearing with the shaft out? (like using a hack saw to cut it out) or would it be easier to leave the shaft in and get my hands on one of those fancy bearing pullers?

2 - IF it's just easier to get the cutlass bearing out by leaving the shaft in place, is there somewhere I can rent or borrow one of those tools locally?

 

[Tally Ho]

If you can get the shaft past the rudder, then just pull it all the way out.

But you may not clear the rudder.

My O’Day 322 shaft is in-line with the rudder, but I was able to get enough “slop” to get it past the rudder by 1) removing the shaft log and 2) removing the cutlass bearing. But I have a tool to push out the cutlass bearing. You need to get the shaft out TO GET the cutlass bearing out. My tool is home made,..but done by a machine shop.

If you can get the shaft out, then you can remove the cutlass bearing using the hacksaw method.

Greg

 

[jonelli]

But I have a tool to push out the cutlass bearing.
If you can get the shaft out, then you can remove the cutlass bearing using the hacksaw method.

Hey Greg, thanks for the reply! I think I must've ran across your video looking for information on the topic. It seems familiar. I've dug around the interwebs quite a bit.
I would love to borrow somebody's tool that has the exact precision parts I need, or a friend of mine was going to try to make one in his machine shop for me, but if for some reason it doesn't work right, I might have trouble.
And, even though others have said they were able to get their shaft all the way out scraping by the rudder, what if I can't get mine out?
I have a limited time (Saturday/Sunday) I can be in the yard and need to make sure I'm prepared for EITHER situation.

 

[shemandr]

I've seen folks dig a hole to drop the rudder to get the shaft out. It can be a pretty big hole. Not all yards will look favorably on that. It can be a lot of trouble for a scheduled maintenance item. Doing it on a short time schedule seems like a problem. Does the shaft rattle around in the cutlass bearing? Is there any evidence that the PSS seal is failing?

 

[Justin_NSA]

I've seen folks dig a hole to drop the rudder to get the shaft out. It can be a pretty big hole. Not all yards will look favorably on that. It can be a lot of trouble for a scheduled maintenance item. Doing it on a short time schedule seems like a problem. Does the shaft rattle around in the cutlass bearing? Is there any evidence that the PSS seal is failing?

I had to dig a hole when I installed my dripless seal. It wasn't an in and out job. And I didn't even do the bearing since the PO did it not long before. Expect delays.
pS: i replaced my stubborn coupler with a split design, Next time should be easier....for the next owner

 

[jonelli]

As of this moment, here's what my coupler looks like. My PSS seal is at least 6 years old, but guessing much longer because the bellows have developed a bit of memory in the position its in and is starting to let water in when moving. It's got a lot of salt crud that keeps building up in there, the surfaces could be scored up, so I'm going to just replace the whole thing with brand new.
No idea if the cutlass bearing is completely gone or fine. But based on the shaft maintenance I've seen, I'm guessing I should just change it while I've got the boat out.
I don't think I have a possibility to dig any holes where the boat will be. So that option is out.

 

[ontherocks83]

The only caution I would give on such a short time table is based on the troubles I had with mine. My cutlass bearing was original when I got my boat in 2019 (the boat is a 1984). I don't know if the age was a factor or not but, I used the hack saw method and unfortunately my shaft strut does not have the set screws that allow you to fold it in on itself like this Replacing A Cutlass Bearing (Sleeve Bearing) - Marine How To .

I had to try to chisel mine out and it was a nightmare. Took me a really long time and I definitely scored the inside race a couple of times. Then I bought washers and a long 3/4" bolt to put through the middle and press it in. I put the new cutlass in my freezer and also applied soap before installing. It went in ok but still took a lot of ummpf to seat it properly. When I have to do mine again I am either outsourcing it or making sure I have plenty of time, beer, and swear words readily available.

 

[Justin_NSA]

yeah...that coupler looks like it's going to give you problems. Order a Buck Algonquin split coupler now. I got mine from the PropShop.

 

[Claude L.-Auger]

As for removing the cutless bearing, you can have a shop make you a tool like mine for a reasonable price. Remove the prop, remove (or loosen) the set screws, use the tool to bring old cutlass bearing out then reverse tool and install new bearing. Good luck.

 

[Tally Ho]

yeah...that coupler looks like it's going to give you problems. Order a Buck Algonquin split coupler now. I got mine from the PropShop.

I agree...unless you are planning to cut the shaft and get a new one, getting the coupling off could be a challenge. I pressed mine off using flanges from my cutlass removal tool. Took me 2 partial days.... in the end, replaced the old bronze shaft due to cracks...

Greg

 

[jonelli]

I’ve watched that video too.
I ordered the coupler removal tool from CD.
this one:

I’m hoping this works best.
I’m interested in the split coupler to replace it though. I’m not sure what the ProShop is. I found this though, is this the right one? Says it’s about $90

4.000 Flange Split Borg Warner,Hurth,Newage,Velvet&ZF

Buck Algonquin 4.00" Flange Split Shaft Couplings for Borg Warner, Hurth, ZF Transmissions, 4 Bolt Holes, 1 set screw, 2 pinch bolts

www.generalpropeller.com

 

[jonelli]

I am still trying to know for sure if it’s possible to get the shaft all the way out past the rudder with the old cutlass still in place. Does anyone know of this is possible for site or not?
If I can’t source the right tool to push the old cutlass out, as long as I can for sure know I will be able to get the shaft out I think I can manage it. But if I won’t be able to pull the shaft al the way out without dropping the rudder, I need to make sure I have a tool to push the cutlass out.

 

[Justin_NSA]

I’ve watched that video too.
I ordered the coupler removal tool from CD.
this one:

I’m hoping this works best.
I’m interested in the split coupler to replace it though. I’m not sure what the ProShop is. I found this though, is this the right one? Says it’s about $90

4.000 Flange Split Borg Warner,Hurth,Newage,Velvet&ZF

Buck Algonquin 4.00" Flange Split Shaft Couplings for Borg Warner, Hurth, ZF Transmissions, 4 Bolt Holes, 1 set screw, 2 pinch bolts

www.generalpropeller.com

That looks like the right coupling if the shaft diameter and hole pattern are correct for your boat. I wish they would put a hole in the set screw to be able to safety wire it.
PropShop is just where I bought my coupler The Prop Shop

 

[ontherocks83]

A split coupling still has to be machined to fit the prop shaft properly. As far as I know, I wouldn't just slap a new split coupler onto an old shaft without bringing it to a machine shop first.

 

[jssailem]

@jonelli I assisted my buddy @LeslieTroyer in removing his cutlass bearing last year. He borrowed a loaner bearing removal tool from the Catalina 36 Association. You might check in with your Association. They may have a program.

The task went smoothly without any glitches. The puller saved the agony of trying to cut the bearing out with a hacksaw blade - carefully. Very carefully.

 

[Justin_NSA]

A split coupling still has to be machined to fit the prop shaft properly. As far as I know, I wouldn't just slap a new split coupler onto an old shaft without bringing it to a machine shop first.

It will fit, but every coupler should be 'fit and faced' on the shaft. The OP is doing a rush job. I hope the results or satisfactorily.

Fitting & Facing A Marine Shaft Coupling

What the heck is that..???;) I am currently doing a shaft, cutlass, coupling and alignment job and when I arrived at my buddies shop the other day the job was not yet done. Cool.:cussing: Actually, it was cool because he allowed me to make a short video of how facing a coupling is actually...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[jonelli]

Okay, hold up. Can you guys help me bottom line this?
I want to service my PSS seal. Might as well swap the cutlass bearing.
Now... I’ll never get the coupler off, and if I do I should put a new better coupler back on butI can’t just put a new one on, I’ll have to machine it first so might as well get a new shaft but I can’t just get a new shaft, I have to have a machine shop now.
—-
I am going to service my PSS seal. I’m fairly certain that I can put a new cutlass bearing in if I get the shaft out.

So, assuming I get the existing coupler off, are you saying if I don’t have a machine shop that I am better off to use all the old stuff to put it back together? Don’t bother with split couplers, or anything else since I don’t plan on machining anything?

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Cut the shaft. They are cheap compared to the pain of getting that coupling off. Plus you’ll get a smooth shaft for you pss. As others have said get the coupling and shaft faced and fitted.

Also @jssailem suggestion is a great one.
Les

 

[ontherocks83]

On my boat last year, I still had the original bronze shaft. The cutlass bearing had never been replaced and believe it or not neither had the shaft log hose. I cut my shaft off and went for a new one. For the new coupler, shaft, balancing, and machining ran somewhere in the $900 range. You can definitely do just the PSS shaft seal/hose, but you need to weigh out how much is it worth having to take everything back out again to do the rest and if you're taking it out should you just replace it. I tend to be a when in doubt replace it with new but that's me YMMV

 

[Tally Ho]

I am still trying to know for sure if it’s possible to get the shaft all the way out past the rudder with the old cutlass still in place. Does anyone know of this is possible for site or not?
If I can’t source the right tool to push the old cutlass out, as long as I can for sure know I will be able to get the shaft out I think I can manage it. But if I won’t be able to pull the shaft al the way out without dropping the rudder, I need to make sure I have a tool to push the cutlass out.

I don’t know for sure. You could take a broom stick or something and lay it on top of the shaft and see where it hits the rudder (or if it is off-set some). Worst case scenario, you could disconnect the rudder, ease it to the ground, and then have the yard pick the boat up to remove the rudder....not going to be a 2-day job though.

I have heard of people that removed the strut, but that is difficult to re-align. I tried hard to avoid removing either the rudder or the strut.


Greg