For the cost of trailer tires verses miles of use, it might help take them off and store inside for the offseason. It is possible that they can develop a "set" or flat spot in the sidewall if they sit with a load on them for any length of time. Probably better for the trailer bergs as well.
Had my first trailer tire blowout yesterday
- Thread starter Gene Neill
- Start date
Wondering why that is a concern when it is the accepted way to do it and 10's of thousands are set up that way. I believe that it equalizes the load and spreads it over both axles going over things better than if the axles are independent and one axle or the other carries most all the load in the same situation,
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
Unlike large trucks, trailer etc... the whole point of me wanting dual axles is to be redundant. Not to be able to carry a bigger boat/load or smooth out the ride.
Based on what I've seen, with most linked T shaped shackles for the middle leaf spring mount, when a tire or wheel fails, the functional wheel's spring end is allowed to shift more, than it would with normal shackle.
That would shift the load/centre of gravity, more to the side with one functional wheel, than what would happen if you had two fully independent axles.
Our shop has repaired many dual axle RVs and the failed rim's bead is actually sitting on the road.
While this is mostly due to the fact the remaining axle is now overloaded, I think that this is partially due to the linked shackle design. I'd love to test it to see how much difference it makes.
Instead of the factory C22 3500lb single axle trailer...
Put two 3500 lbs axles mounted independently with highest load range tires that will fit
One tire fails.. the 2nd tire takes the load.. and the damaged rim is almost floating along for the ride.
The normal reason for dual axles is to increase load capacity
In this case it would be to double the capacity while actually keeping the load the same.
This seems like a better option for a trailer being towed places where the roads are often far from good.
Lord knows what would happen with a bearing/hub failure on some of the gravel roads up to the beautiful remote lakes we have. Soft gravel + washboard+heavy camber+no shoulder+occasionally not wide enough for 2 vehicles, washouts..
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...341f898e4980c38!8m2!3d50.645018!4d-95.3222449
The problem is likely that the suspension would be so stiff that it would bounce more.. which could lead to other problems.
True...And I may be wrong headed in this idea.
But in general, that is never a valid reason not to question a design. They would have said the same thing about wood/fibreglass and acoustic vs amplified guitar.
You've towed more than most. What were your experiences on rough gravel roads with tandem axles vs single ?
Edit: was just reading your post about sailing in Kootenay Lake, and your plan to add additional axle and brakes.
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In our case the original single axle and wheels/tires were right at the load limits for them. The axle was bending and wearing out the tires and no trailer brakes was not good. I think MacGregor had in mind that most owners were only going to trailer a few miles from home to a lake or the ocean and the single axle would be ok for that.
In our case the second axle is there to lessen the load on the components and not for redundancy. The trailer pulls a lot better now and it is about impossible to induce sway and now it has disc brakes on one axle and is much safer. In this situation I'd sure stay with the equalizer link between the springs to equalize the load between the axles and wheels/tires.
If you only want redundancy maybe separate mounts for the springs might work. Regardless I'd want to fix a flat tire as soon as I had a safe place to pull over and not count on towing for any distance on 3 tires/wheels.
I haven't had to tow on gravel roads except a couple times in work zones. We have lots of wash-board gravel roads in our area but I don't pull the boat trailer over them, only the ATV/motorcycle trailer. I have pulled the boat to Florida a couple times where the roads have not been good in areas with lots of dips and such from an unstable roadbed. The two axles, with a heavy trailer load, has given me more peace of mind as there is a lot of kinetic energy in situations like that which can momentarily overload the springs/axles/wheels/tires.
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
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Very true. That's the problem with some of these remote roads. You need to drive a fair distance, in some cases, to find a place wide enough to do the repair.
Single axle ? Heaven help ya.
I hear you. I cringe when I hit a dip in the road and the weight shifts all over the place, knowing that the axle and tires are near their limit.
Catalina definitely thought that. Puzzling IMO because the whole marketing was based on the fact you can take the boat all over the place.
That's the reason I bought a C22. I can easily buy a bigger boat. I live in the middle of the continent, with a large number of remote, almost pristine, lakes. It would be goofy not to haul the boat there, in spite of the gravel roads.
FYI, great idea.. I think I will do the same
Certainly a good reason for two axles is to handle a heavier load and it makes balancing the trailer a little less dependent on where weight is placed in the boat. But for reliability, its easy to come to the conclusion that two axles will solve problems but I am not at all sure that is the case. Does anyone have any REAL evidence that if the components meet or exceed ratings, that two axles is more reliable than one?
I am of the opinion that if the cost and maintenance between one or two axles is constant, you can replace the tires and bearings twice as often and that is going to be more reliable. Does doubling the amount of hardware involved mean you now have twice the risk of something screwing up. Remember that when you launch, all the tires and axles get completely dunked.
My two trailer problems both likely would not have been improved by two axles. The first problem was from not checking the lug nuts after having taken the tires off for bearing maintenance, lug nuts came loose and I lost the whole tire. This is a case where I really could not tell you if having twice the number of lug nuts would have been worse or better.
Second trailer problem was I believe caused by somehow leaving out the keyed washer between the outer bearing and the castle nut. Castle nut was the real cheap kind where the castle part was just stamped metal over a regular nut. Castle nut failed possibly because of the lack of the keyed washer and the bearings were completely destroyed. Again in this case, Im not sure having two axles would have helped.
Sumner, I was also curious if the box trailer you mentioned in the past had one or two axles? We both had bearing failures but with my single axle trailer, it was obvious something was wrong and I pulled over very quickly. I was able to repair everything on the road. I had to leave the trailer and drive about 100 miles to find parts as I had no spare kit.. but had I had the spare parts, I would have fixed everything there.
I am wondering if having two axles allowed you to keep driving with the bad bearing. You had the bearing weld to the spindle so that the trailer had to be towed.
Anyhow.. if I had two axles, I think I would like it but at the moment dont really see the evidence that this would be more reliable than my single axle where every component exceeds ratings.. And if I replace tires and bearings twice as often, I think I am actually more reliable for the same cost and effort.
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Hmm.. Interesting opinion but my original trailer is still going strong after 28 years now and Ive lost track of how many miles I have put on that trailer over the 11 years I have owned the boat. Ive come to appreciate that design in many ways. Super easy to launch a 26 foot boat with no trailer extension needed and its minimal weight, easy to maneuver to the side yard to store. You have to worry about weight distribution to keep the tongue weight but that is not a big problem. Corrosion is the main issue you have with these trailers as its just painted steel.
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For some reason, Hwy #1 in the Fraser canyon just outside Boston Bar, BC comes to mind. Two lane, very narrow, twisty, poor to no visibility, no place to pull off, and a constant parade of fearless trucks. This conversation can be rationalized till the cows come home, and there's no substitute for being over prepared, it's all about what your tolerance for pain is. There's never time to do it right, but there's endless time to go back and fix it or do it again.
It's really got nothing to do with ratings. It's not about what can happen, it's all about what happens when, and probably more to the point, where, something does happen. If you're ok packing a bearing at the side of a very busy road in the rain with semi's blasting by a foot away, rock on.
The rig may last forever, but mr Murphy is going to do his ever lovin' best to ensure when it does go off the rails, it's at the worst possible spot, and the worst possible time.
When I had my bearing failure, I had just driven through San Diego on a Monday morning. Fortunately the bearing failed out in the middle of the desert. I scares me now to think of having that same failure on I5 in San Diego where I had driven just hours before I had the failure. Trailer reliability is very important to me.. I just have not jumped to the conclusion that adding more axles is the solution for the reliability issue..
My plan at the moment is to just assume the cost and maintenance of having two axles and I will just replace tires and bearings twice as often.
I think Sumners case (and waiting for the confirmation that he had double axle) is a data point that having two axles does not necessary mean you can drive very far with a failed tire (remember he had a welded on bearing to the spindle and the trailer had to be towed).
All of the examples of really bad things happening at really bad times also apply to just driving any vehicle.. Of course those could happen but do you go out and buy a car with four axles?
My plan at the moment is to just assume the cost and maintenance of having two axles and I will just replace tires and bearings twice as often.
I think Sumners case (and waiting for the confirmation that he had double axle) is a data point that having two axles does not necessary mean you can drive very far with a failed tire (remember he had a welded on bearing to the spindle and the trailer had to be towed).
All of the examples of really bad things happening at really bad times also apply to just driving any vehicle.. Of course those could happen but do you go out and buy a car with four axles?
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It is a single axle and no idea the bearing had gone out until the next morning checking it at the motel. I had been checking it during the previous day so the bearing must of gone out not too far before getting to the motel for the night. The Suburban pulls that trailer easily as it is probably under 2000 lb. I built it with a 3500 lb. axle and springs.
I agree that the stock Mac trailer is probably adequate if you keep the boat pretty empty and the outboard off, keeping the weight down near what MacGregor had in mind. I obviously haven't done that for a number of reasons so feel much better with the two axles. It was overweight for the stock axle and springs.
I'm building a camp trailer ....
..... that will also carry an ATV and motorcycle on it and want a single axle as it is easier to maneuver around in the woods and canyons where we will tow it. I've gone with a 6000 lb. axle, 6 bolt hubs and wheels and tires that are suited to a heavier load. Hopefully it will weigh about 3000-3600 lbs. but will be going on really bad roads so didn't want a 3500 lb axle and springs. So yes a single axle can work if you stay within the load limits of the components. We weren't with the stock Mac trailer. Two axles and the required tires is an additional price to pay, but for us I feel it is well worth it.
The second axle has not changed the easy of launching the Mac as it is just as low.
Sumner
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Thanks and interesting. I was towing the 26S with a Dodge Dakota 4x4 and immediately knew something was wrong. I do keep the boat light for towing because of the trailer but the outboard has been on the boat for almost the whole time Ive owned the boat including all the towing miles. The main thing about the outboard being back there is tongue weight but the golf cart batteries forward balance things on the trailer. With the single axle trailer and single fulcrum point, you definitely have to worry more about where stuff is placed in the boat.
One thing I did change on that trailer.. I went to 15 inch rims and higher rated tires which of course created a bunch of new problems making the fenders fit..
And please dont get me wrong.. I also like two axles.
Years ago we had a minivan with General Seal, self sealing tires. Not sure what I drove through, but one day I was looking at them and counted no less than 8 nails/screw on ONE tire. I checked the pressure on the tire, and it was still well within a safe range. I pulled all the nails and screws out, and the tire was still fine. To me this seams like a much more practical solution than dual axles. Unless you have severe tread separation, the tire should hold up to most anything.
BTY: 7 years is usually the generally accepted limit for tire age. Most folk will look at the sidewall for cracks, however this is NOT where the first cracks usually occur. Most cracking starts deep in the tread grooves. This is much harder to see.
BTY: 7 years is usually the generally accepted limit for tire age. Most folk will look at the sidewall for cracks, however this is NOT where the first cracks usually occur. Most cracking starts deep in the tread grooves. This is much harder to see.
So.. regarding the single vs double axle trailer, maybe there are two separate things to think about regarding some sort of failure.
First, how does single vs double axle affect your chances of a failure?
Second, if you do have some sort of failure, does the double axle trailer allow you to drive some distance to a safer spot for a repair without increasing the damage that already happened. For example, you have a failure at really bad dangerous spot. Can you drive to a safer spot without destroying things more than has already happened.
I know with the single axle trailer, you can not drive far at all without doing additional damage. The only case Ive seen with a double axle was a travel trailer that had probably a tire blow and there were sparks flying all over the place as the guy drove down the road. But maybe there is some axle config that does allow you to drive a while with a single tire failure?
Maybe there is also a third thing to think about.. is the trailer safe if there is a tire failure. My experience with the single axle is that if you have proper tongue weight, that the trailer will still tow safely with a tire failure. I would guess the same applies for dual axle.
First, how does single vs double axle affect your chances of a failure?
Second, if you do have some sort of failure, does the double axle trailer allow you to drive some distance to a safer spot for a repair without increasing the damage that already happened. For example, you have a failure at really bad dangerous spot. Can you drive to a safer spot without destroying things more than has already happened.
I know with the single axle trailer, you can not drive far at all without doing additional damage. The only case Ive seen with a double axle was a travel trailer that had probably a tire blow and there were sparks flying all over the place as the guy drove down the road. But maybe there is some axle config that does allow you to drive a while with a single tire failure?
Maybe there is also a third thing to think about.. is the trailer safe if there is a tire failure. My experience with the single axle is that if you have proper tongue weight, that the trailer will still tow safely with a tire failure. I would guess the same applies for dual axle.
If having the second set of tires as a tolerance for blowout is the desire, how about a single dually axle? Is that a thing for boat trailers? Cheaper at the toll booths. In NJ and Central FL, that could pay for itself in no time.
- Will (Dragonfly)
- Will (Dragonfly)
I don’t normally see duelies on boat trailers. Usually, with a boat trailer, the challenge is to keep the trailer from being any wider than the boat if possible. Because of this, wide tires are usually not a first choice. You can get heavier axles & the tires that match if you want to add some beef without adding a second axle, but that comes at the expense of a stiffer ride for your boat (assuming that the springs match the axle) and more unsprung weight. On construction grade utility trailers (like Tripple E drop-decks), it is common to see a 7,000# axle. The axle, in the post that started this thread, looks to be about a 3,500# axle. That makes me wonder if maybe a 4,100# load may be flexing the axle & knocking the alignment of the tires out a little. Maybe that gets worse when the trailer hits a bump? Poor alignment can add unusual stresses to a tire.
In addition to keeping an eye on the condition of my tires, also make it a habit to grease my bearings frequently. Bearing buddies are a great help, assuming that your grease seals are in good shape.
When choosing spare tire carriers, one option is to get the type that carries the spare tire on a spare hub. Those are a little more expensive, but they offer some extra options for when the unexpected happens.
As for duel axles, they do a good job of stabilizing things when pulling on the highway. They create issues when trying to make tight turns. I have seen a duel axle limping by with one wheel removed that the empty spindle chained up, but that is an emergency measure for careful use at low speeds. That is the Cliff’s Notes version of it from my experience.
In addition to keeping an eye on the condition of my tires, also make it a habit to grease my bearings frequently. Bearing buddies are a great help, assuming that your grease seals are in good shape.
When choosing spare tire carriers, one option is to get the type that carries the spare tire on a spare hub. Those are a little more expensive, but they offer some extra options for when the unexpected happens.
As for duel axles, they do a good job of stabilizing things when pulling on the highway. They create issues when trying to make tight turns. I have seen a duel axle limping by with one wheel removed that the empty spindle chained up, but that is an emergency measure for careful use at low speeds. That is the Cliff’s Notes version of it from my experience.
I have yet to actually get the guys to check the ratings on the dual axle RVs we've done repairs on, but I suspect that the wheel is grinding along because the trailer is designed with two axles of the smallest possible size and cost.
eg 6000 lbs load with two 3500lb axles
So a tire fails and suspension badly sags on that side.
That's exactly the situation i've seen at the shop. It's one reason why i started wondering about using fully independent and overrated axles.
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Yep.
That's one reason I have a diesel truck as a tow vehicle for our C22.
Sure my wife's Dakota can "pull" it, but that diesel weighs a lot more than the boat. I can barely tell the boat is there.
That tow vehicle weight is a big safety factor, when combined with good trailer maintenance/design/balance.
Not to mention that is one of the occasional times the truck is comfortable to ride in.