H34 Cockpit Drains

[Dan Johnson]

Bob...

next time don't just drive by--stop and say Hello. I'm there almost every weekend, especially now that our fall race series is starting. Will be at Bay Jam in two weekends. Hope to cross tracks with you one of these days!

 

[kloudie1]

Good stuff, Bob.. When I bought the boat, it had two 6V golf cart batteries forward of the fuel tank. The #1 was a 12V type 27 put back there outboard of the aft end of the diesel tank.. PO had refrigeration (which is in my garage now waiting for repair) and so he needed the big golf cart batts.. That aft battery is a bugger to get to.. I put in that remote watering system that I rave about and it really works well.. That and the new Xantrex are treating my batteries well.. Oh I replaced the two 6V batts with one 12V type 27.. Sooner or later I'll fix the reefer and put some 6 v batts back in... maybe..
I agree with Dan.. I couldn't get in the hole if there was a battery there on the shelf.

 

[Island Girl 34]

I was pretty excited to see how that bulkhead had been cut out to gain access to the fuel tank and batteries. I could never fit throught that topside opening. Bob, I'm glad you did the math and figured the right places to cut. I will probably take that on in the fall. My goal is to gain acces to that 1983 fuel tank to put a clean out port in the top and add a TLI.

I too have 2 group 27s strapped for a house batt and a seperate one for the backup / starter. I plan to move the house bank from that location to under the port side setee forward of the water tank. They will be much easier to access there and may help offset the starboard list as well.

Thanks for the additional info and photos Bob. Will post photos of my efforts in the fall when things cool down enough to do some work in there.

Ken

 

[Steve Dion]

Water Tank Fill. On our H31 the original tank fill was under the helm seat (same location as the emergency tiller). I added an additional water tank and placed the second fill on the opposite side of the emergency tiller access plate.

 

[Bob Poff]

First let me remind you that the pictures of the batteries shows the starting point. This installation was in place when I bought the boat. My hope is do a cleaner job of it.

I haven't quite worked out the final placement of everything as yet.
The comment by zds about empty space near the aft water tank has me thinking. Until it's finished I'll need to rename the boat Hydra since this project keeps growing heads.

I have some latitude on placing the start battery since it's smaller. It's a 700 CCA AGM. Information here.

I've attached a drawing and a concept of the finished bulkhead access.
One of the goals is to get some better lighting into the berth. The ovals will be backlit with LED fixtures to help with this.

Thanks for all your input. For certain in this case multiple heads are better than one.

 

[Dan Johnson]

Hey Bob...

once you get those back-lit ovals working, I wanna see a pic with the mirror on the ceiling...:dance:

Am running two deep cycle dual-purpose 27's ahead of the fuel tank where most others have them. One's no longer accepting a full charge (expected as it's five years old) and WM's got batteries on special until the 16th.

Have been thinking of adding a #24 size AGM stuffed into one of the aft berth compartments on the port side (if it will fit) as a starter battery since the engine fires right up now with the starter relay upgrade. But, that would entail new wiring to the starter and a different charging set-up. As I don't spend any time on the hook, I may leave well enough alone for now and just replace the 27.

 

[Allan12210]

Now that we are talking about batteries

Hope I don't get in trouble for changing the topic of cockpit drains, but I moved most of my batteries from the basement. I did have a single maintenance free starter bank (Group 24). It fit tightly between the fuel tank and the front bulkhead down there (short side of the battery next to the fuel tank, one long side against the wall of the berth). I had two Group 27s for my house bank. They were turned 90 degrees to the other battery so they could fit. There was enough room from the starter battery to the hull, so I didn't need to use the space alongside the fuel tank further back. This was all Generation 2 from the original two Group 24 batteries that came with the boat. Generation 3 replaced the two Group 27s with two 6 Volt 215 amp hour wet cell batteries. They could be rotated back parallel with the starter battery so they wern't outboard so much as the boat really had a pronounced lean. Last year I dumped (pun intended) the holding tank and replaced it with an ElectroScan. Very nice. I didn't know how much juice it would require so Generation 4 added two 232 amp hour 6 volt batteries in the salon settee and tied them together with two new 6 volt batteries still in the basement. Now I have over 500 amp hours of capacity. Of course on port tack I needed to double reef and on starboard I could shake it out as it was like having 240 pounds of rail meat on the side. That brings me to early July where I moved the basement half of the house bank to the salon settee opposite the the others and tied them together. Now all that is left in the cellar is the starter bank. It may fit under the aft berth somewhere and that hopefully means no more trips down the hole. If I can open up access like you did, Bob, It would be a nice storage area. Perhaps installing shelves? Some people have actually reconfigured the fuel tank to gain even more room. Additional details of wiring and schematics are available.

 

[Bob Poff]

No Dan.... not just a mirror...... MIRRORED DISCO BALL!

Allan this thread is like an FM radio format we made up years ago...
AOR - no not Album Oriented Rock..... ALL OVER THE ROAD.

I've seen some projects were they've put a new fuel tank where the aft water tank is.
Moved the batteries and so on. I think there's one one the Project Pages of this site.
And then yes I would probably build some shelves, or just extend the berth decking to the hull. Just don't think that I want to go to the expense and time for that right now.

This whole thing started for me a year ago when I had a nasty time servicing the batteries. Decided that this wet cell stuff had to go. And for me, AGM was the way to go. Yes I may be sacrificing performance for convience.

As to the placement. I guess being somewhat of a pessimist one thing comes to mind as a plus to keeping the batteries and fuel tank where they are. If I'm not around the boat and and someone notices smoke puffing out from the locker they can cut the padlock and stuff an extinguisher directly onto the things that are most likely to start a fire when the boat's closed up It's a stretch I know.

For now I have enough of a project going. Install the new charger. Remount the batteries. Clean up and/or replace the AC and DC wiring. Install some utility AC and DC power distribution in the area. Maybe some utility 12v lighting. New battery switch. ACR. Put an inspection port in the fuel tank. Clean the tank. Replace the fuel line. Probably add a primary fuel filter. And 12v aux fuel pump maybe. And then do the woodworking to make it look nice.

And then on to the nav station......after that ... New instruments?
Next year? Ya' know a washdown pump in the anchor locker would be nice.....

 

[kloudie1]

Bob, Curious if you’ve noted any loss of stiffness in the pedestal/cockpit floor as a result of cutting the door?? It looks like this bulkhead would add a considerable amount of vertical stiffness .. Are you planning to put in a vertical compression member where the separation is between the doors??

 

[Bob Poff]

Claude that was one thing that had me concerned when I started planning this whole mess a year ago.

There still is about 8" (guessing) or so of 1/2" plywood above the opening. The remaining bulkhead forms an upside down "U" shape. Sort of a squared off mini Roman Arch. When I was tromping around the cockpit on Sunday I didn't notice any significant flexing. And this is with 330 pounds of me movinig around.

But, I don't think that I'd let it unsupported for the long term. Any flexing that we might not even notice would over time fracture the fiberglass. Or for no other reason the weight it would need to support if the cockpit were flooded (8 lbs/gal) for some reason while I'm away from the boat.

My current thought is to have a stringer running across the bottom of the opening, maybe 1/2" x 2" or 3" high, resting on the structural stringer. It would hang on the fuel tank side of the bulkhead using some wooden dowels for support. With some sort of cabinet latch on either end so it could easily be removed. Then at the midpoint a vertical support. That would attach with a pair of dowels into pockets in the horiztonal wooden stringer. The top of that support would be same as the ends of the horizontal stringer. Making it all removable gives me easier access later on should I need to remove the fuel tank or move something new into that area.

And as Ken reminded me, some cleats, maybe 1/2" overlap, along the outer vertical edges of the the opening for the covers to rest on.

The covers themselves would have an upside down "L" bracket on their back near the lower edge that fits over the horizontal wooden stringer. Fastening at the top with whatever cabinet hardware strikes my fancy at Lowes.

When the covers are in place, along with the horizontal and vertical stringers, I would think that it should be nearly as strong as the single piece of plywood was.

Sorry, but I don't have my Visio drawings here at work to post. I hope that made some sense.

 

[kloudie1]

Sounds like a great plan Bob.. I figured you'd thought about it.. and it sounds like ya have a nice removable strut in mind.. Good job with the pictures!.. Now.. Where is the propane locker going to go?

 

[Bob Poff]

At this time propane isn't on the list. Not even floating about in my mind.
Although one of these days I'll need to do something about the stinking Kenyon range.
Maybe then an Origo or a Wallas.

By the way I used one of Harbor Freight's knock off of the Multimaster to cut the hole.
And in the fllier that came today is a coupon for it at $34.95.
I'm always wary of their power tools but so far so good.

Now comes the "fun" part. Making all that planning reality.

 

[Island Girl 34]

Bob,

2 thoughts from your last post...

1. I have my Kenyon top burners converted to use small camp size porpane bottles. Works great. Oven don't work at all. Probably never would even use it if it did work.

2. I have that same Harbor Freight knock off tool too. Works pretty darn good. Used it to cut the holes to mount my AC and DC meter panels.

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=109554

I plan to use my variable speed jig saw to cut most of straight lines of that aft opening and finish up close to the deck line with the multicutter.

This thread seems to have a life of it's own - and that's a good thing!

Ken

 

[Dan Johnson]

Bob...

and to think I changed "mirrored disco ball" to "mirror on the ceiling" for sounding too extravagant!

 

[Bob Poff]

I used the round blade for most of the cuts. It tended to bog down and wander a bit. The small square cutter went right through the plywood. And I think that I had more control with it. Figured that since I was heading into the "Unknown Country" that it would be safer than a jigsaw.

Added >>-->
Since I'm not the steadiest hand, the edges of the opening are a bit wavy.
I'll need to true them up.
I'll probably stick a piece of metal angle stock down with double sided tape for a straight edge, offset back the correct distance.
Then use it as a fence to guide a Roto-Zip.
<--<<

After the disco ball, I guess that I'll need to pull out the setee and build a dance floor.
The slot machines should go in the vee berth. Oh wait a minute... Maryland is still arguing about slots...... never mind. Maybe a stage..... Donna Sommer appearing daily. Welcome to the Loon Lounge.

 

[Brad Hoff]

Allan,

Where do you have your batteries in the salon? I have two Trojan 6v house batteries outboard of the fuel tank now with the start battery in the original position. I would like to either move all of the house bank to the salon (under the starboard settee next to the water heater)? I really would like to add two additional Trojans for a total of 4 but may need to separate them by keeping the two in the rear and two new ones in the salon. If I can get all of the house batteries in the Salon, it sure would help with the big starboard lean I now have. Any ideas on how I can double my house capacity and get the weight more centered? I like the value of the Trojans but may have to change to a different battery type.

I also plan on cutting an access through the rear sleeping compartment as well but have my FAU heater attached to the plywood bulkhead at about mid point so this will limit the size of the opening. Due to the pain of getting down in this compartment now, I tend to put off checking the water level in the batteries more than I should. Upgrading the batteries is about all I have left to do on my electrical system. I just finished isolating both battery banks completely (start battery always set on the engine with the option to combine). Shore and engine charging systems are both separate as well. This has stopped the dropout I always got on the electronics when I started the engine.

 

[Brad Hoff]

Allan,

Sorry, I just saw your post where you talked about how your batteries are set up. With my holding tank still in place, I think my only possible option is still next to the water heater in the rear settee. I see alot of photos of batteries with no containment boxes here. I think I willl have to build a box under the settee for any batteries. Any thoughts?

 

[Island Girl 34]

Brad,

Another possibly better location for those batteries is in the port setee just forward of the water tank. Not sure if you can fit 4 T-105 batteries there. Will have to get the tape measure out for that one. I have seen photos of several projects where folks have placed batteries there. Looks to be plenty of room and that would certainly help with that starboard list...

Ken

 

[kloudie1]

Bob and Ken.. After reading about the Harbor Freight tool, I picked up my latest Car & Driver magazine and there inside was a coupon for that tool for $29.99... I HAD to go and get one.. Harbor Freight is only a mile or so from the house.. The Multitool is a little jewel !!!

 

[Allan12210]

Brad,

I got behind in my reading and almost missed your question. Here are a couple of pictures of my battery locations. I have 4 of the 6V batteries in the salon. They are in boxes and I ran straps under and around to secure them. I don't expect to go upside down but who knows. I also have included a schematic to show how things are wired up. My original wiring from the battery selector switch is still being used. I ran a couple of 4 gauge wires from the new location back to a power post ( + side) to connect back into my selector switches. The ground (- side) just connects to the negative terminal of the starter battery that completes the circuts.

Since you have the holding tank still, I think there is ample room next to the hot water heater to place two batteries. That would still help balance out the load. Two batteries there would require less wire to get back to the selector switches/battery chargers, etc.

Let me know if this is hard to figure out.

Allan