First time sailor, seeking advice

[Sumner]

Sumner;
I pulled sailboats for a living as a sailboat dealer and was often asked to conduct seminars for truckers and was often asked how to tie down a boat to a trailer. I have too much experience in this field and stand on what I said as an expert.

I have no problem with your strapping procedure as it looks good but also don't see how his boat is going move fore/aft with the shape of his hull and the rising bunks in both directions and with also what appears to be a stop in front of the keel. The only problem I see would be if a strap broke,

Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Sumner;
It takes experience to know what happened to customers and myself. Regardless of weight and bunk boards/pads, if you have to stop in an instant jamming on the brakes, that boat will move forward putting weight on the forward v section of the trailer which can and has happened causing accidents damaging boats, trailers, tow vehicles and most important the individuals in some cases. I have seen this happen to include a trailer I owned nearly Identical to the one posted in this thread. The fellow who drove my truck never strapped down the boat nor check it before or after leaving the plant. While tailgating a tractor trailer too close, he jammed on the brakes and the boat slid forward as the straps were loose and not attached. It caused the front of the trailer to collapse. Thankfully he was able to pull over to the side before loosing the trailer and boat.

I recall also a similar trailer with a boat tied down the same way as Mariachee does which moved forward collapsing the v section of the trailer which broke and went over into the embankment. The driver was killed. It is very important when there is no tongue support for the bow which to apply a winch strap to a bow eye, you have to strap the boat so it cannot move forward or backwards. Sometime if you see a trucker moving a large sailboat to include a 27 footer, look how they strap down the boat on the trailer and you will see again what I am talking about. By the way, one incident where the front section of the trailer was damaged was due to the way Maiachee straps his boat when the owner had to brake suddenly. finally, I owned two trailers like that and use to haul boats myself and that included the Catalina 270. With any boat you have to secure it so it cannot move forward or backwards. In addition, 10% of the entire weight should be on the tongue for safety to keep the load from fishtailing.

 

[Jackdaw]

This is just as much a question of trailer design as it is technique.

The trailer for our lifting-keel First 260 has a triangulated keel stop in front of the keel. It is designed to resist the full forward weight of the boat in a hard stop. There is also an adjustable bunk on the centerline under the bow to help prevent any dive. The trailer was designed and built by Hayling UK, the same people that make the trailer and cradles for the Volvo boats. They know their stuff.

On our setup the straps hold the boat down. The trailer stops the boat from moving forward.

But Dave raises a good point. A boat trailer is designed to have the weight centered over or between the axles. It does not take much of a shift forward to brake a boat trailor frame.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

thanks for backing me up as I had a boat move forward nearly breaking the forward frame due to an employee who did not strap the boat down and did not bother checking them enroute so I have experienced that personally.

 

[Meriachee]

one incident where the front section of the trailer was damaged was due to the way Maiachee straps his boat

The way my boat is strapped is supportive to the fact that the keel stop is 1/2" wall material, installed to distribute stresses to the frame of the trailer.. Don't assume that just because you don't see a bow line, that accommodation hasn't been made to prevent the boat from moving forward. There is a bow chock aft of the trailer winch, but in all reality, that is to stop the hull while loading. If the keel stop were to become damaged to the point that the chock came into play, I'd not want to see what was left of the hull.
While there's always better ways of doing things, please don't associate my assembly too some failed operation that isn't even remotely close to the attention that I have put into the transport of this boat. Mine is intended to be reliably hauled over the second biggest obstacle I've ever seen, and I don't tailgate anybody, nevermind semis. I like the chrome on my grill to be shiny.

 

[Meriachee]

meriachee;
Looking at the photo of your Catalina on that three axle t

Dave,
Have a look at the pages at Wordpress listed at the end of this message. Then come back and tell me what I missed. (and that's not saying I'm mocking anything or anyone, many hours have been spent on this trailer and I wouldn't think twice about changing it some more)

 

[Jackdaw]

Maybe it was not clear in my last post, so I should add that based on what I assume that Meriachee's setup was like mine or just as safe. He's one of the few people here who's engineering sense I'd trust implicitly.

 

[Meriachee]

I did save the napkins from the engineering sessions, but they won't be needed for a bigger one. I've already been told I can't have an F550.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I am looking at the picture of the Catalina 270 on a tri axle trailer with two straps over it tied down to the trailer. We can agree to disagree but having pulled sailboats for a living with various trailers having experienced a lot and seen a lot, I would still tie down differently to ensure nothing can slide forward or backwards on the trailer so no boat can slide. Next time you see a sailboat on a tractor trailer see how it is strapped down. As for the bow chock, maybe I missed that in the picture. Please advise as I do not think I saw it. I am talking about trailers where the bow is not supported by a bow chock.

 

[Daveinet]

I suppose another factor could be to ask if the trailer flexes at all. I'm pulling a 1600 lbs boat on a 1200 lbs of trailer. Needless to say, the trailer does not flex. The tongue could easily support the full weight of the boat. Ratcheting a strap over the boat puts enough clamping force on the boat, that it will not slip. I would consider it entirely different if the trailer had much flex to it, as straps would not stay tight over bumps.

In a serious accident could the boat move forward? Maybe, but I think in a serious accident, the docking cleats would pull out of the hull too, so what is there to gain.

 

[Meriachee]

Dave,
I do disagree with references to my methodology being compared to some lackey employee who apparently didn't tie anything down and then drove like an idiot causing damage. I do neither. I own my rather expensive truck, the boat and the trailer. Further to that point, I did offer substantial detail to qualify (but not justify) the way things are done, and what has been built to accommodate exactly the discussion as presented, and that wasn't reviewed or taken into consideration in your commentary.
Suggesting that my setup is deficient based on a single piece of information that doesn't contain all the relevant detail sends a suggestive message to the masses that it's acceptable to compare mine to something some idiot did.
Sorry, but I don't like that. If mine is deficient, I welcome input from anywhere, will evaluate it based on fact, or even suggestive fact, but won't stand around and allow it to become fact just because some stupid person did something dumb and mine sorta, kinda, almost looks the same. That's not fair, or logical, or based in good engineering practice.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Sir, I never imply anything but saw something to which a suggestion is made for safety based on knowledge and experience. Like I said we can agree to disagree but based on my experience over the years of pulling boats of various sizes to include Catalina, Beneteau and Hunter, I have seen boats move forward collapsing the forward frame of trailers. As for experience, that is good but consider the fools that cut in and out which one would have to brake to avoid an accident or the ones who tailgate and ram into the rig. In addition to being a former dealer, I use to be a reconstruction accident investigator for insurance companies on the east coast specializing in tractor trailer accidents and mine disasters. This is all I am going to say on this as we can respectively disagree with the set up. However if you have a chance to observe tractor trailers pulling sailboats in the future, take a look how the boats are secured. Enough said on this

 

[Joe]

Well.... that was interesting...

 

[jssailem]

GR
Both of the boats have fan clubs. The suggestion "I'd choose the one that's in better condition" is great advice.

I would suggest that you give priority to a boat that you can afford to buy and then put 50% of that value in on the things you find after the purchase you want to change. We all have bought boats and after a few outings start to buy the things we find it is missing.

Having started my sailing experience with trailer boats, in the 14 to 20 foot range there is a lot of sailing to learn and places to sail that a marina based boat might not share. Perhaps exploring the range of Daysailors - Sage 17, Montgomery 15-17 boats or even the Hobbie Cat line might be worth some time exploring.

Sailing can be exciting in a number of ways. One of favorite stories was an ocean race as crew off Point Loma on a Flying Dutchman. I learned a lot about sailing and had a tremendous amount of fun.

Besides if the girlfriend is still in the picture you can always find a way on to the cruising 35 foot boat. Why not explore the sport in a "sports model".

 

[jackhararis]

I have been sailing S2's since 1985, a 22' 6.9 and a 26' 7.9. They are the best without question. They both have vertical lift daggerboard keels, 450# and 600#, they retract flush with the bottom of the boat. You have NO leaking problems like the SWING keels. You have NO mechanical problems like SWING keels. Every aspect of the S2 is much higher quality, like Mercedes vs. chevys. S2's were nearly double the cost of Catalinas, ODays, etc new BUT used they are comparable. IF you can find an S2, buy it. Oh by the way, the 7.9 was the MORC national champion two years running in the mid 80's and none of the other boats you will look at ever came close

 

[Tally Ho]

My 2 cents:
If you can keep her on a trailer at the marina with mast up and ready to sail, you will probably sail her more. Better yet, if you can swing it, keep her in the water (slip or mooring). I can be headed out of the slip in 15 minutes, and 15 minutes to put her to bed when I get back...means I can run out for a few hours on the water, and not waste 1/2 of the time.

I can't talk about either boats you are looking at, but I test sailed a Mac 26X before I bought my first boat. The 26X is a water-ballast, centerboard, trailer sailer. It did not sail particularly well, and did not motor well. Plus, it took an hour to rig and launch it. And another hour to trailer it and take down the sails, mast, etc. Big hassle. Decided that day that I would figure out how to keep her in a slip, and that I wanted a bigger, heavier boat.

I ended up with a 28 foot Hunter 280. Too big to trailer, but sailed pretty well with her 5 foot fin keel. Small enough to learn on, easily single-handed, big enough to sleep on for a weekend (but just barely).

Sailed her for about 5 seasons, and then upgraded to a 32 foot O'Day 322.

Not sure how protected your waters are, but i am on Lake Michigan too (far south end). For my money, a bigger heavier boat is much preferred, particularly on Lake Michigan. She can be a bitch !

Good luck on your search!

Greg

 

[Windtherapy]

What town are you sailing out of? I ask because Lake Huron side of course is much cheaper. You can buy 36 foot slips for under $2000 with a gorgeous clubhouse and grounds and yearly dues are only $550.00. They always get so much more on Lake Michigan it's crazy....oh and yes there are plenty of sandy beaches on lake Huron!