First sailboat advice: Sunfish or Victoria 18

[rgranger]

Hey Dave:

My Coronado 25 used to be down at Lake Haven... I did get leaves in the cockpit drains. I took a small piece of hardware cloth and rolled it into a tube... then stuck the end into the drain. The cloth stuck up a bit so leaves could not lay on top of the hole. I think a small piece of screen would work the same way.

I do the same thing with my gutters at home.

 

[Jackdaw]

WOW!.... that IS a BIG cockpit for such a small boat. It does look fun. Looks like Glen could use some rail meat.

or a BIG ease. You can tell by the flag that the apparent wind is on the beam, and he's trimmed for close hauled. That's making the boat unhappy, and why he's got the tiller pulled in hard to keep that angle. He's a smart guy, so I'm guessing he was screwing around.

 

[LeeandRick]

That Compac looks nice and is more in your towing range. A brake setup would probably require a new axle because the old one probably does not have flanges for brake mounting. I have friends with small Compacs and they all like them.

I'm with jracer get both. Our sailing group here are in the 50-80 year old range and the primary boat is 22+ but almost everyone is getting a get wet small dinghy or Hobie TI. The mechanics of sailing are basically the same on all boats but a small daggerboard boat will teach you things you will never learn on a keel boat. Many folks who learn to sail on a keel boat will not attempt sailing a dinghy, yet there is not a dinghy sailor, that I'm aware of, that won't leap aboard a keel boat and sail away. Oh, and don't discount racing so quickly. IMO you will learn more in a weekend of racing than a season of cruising around. After all if there are 2 boats in proximity of each other it is a race.

 

[Brian S]

Regarding towing a boat with a Subaru Forester, here's my deal.

I have a 2011 Foz 2.5x. According to the stats I've seen, it can tow up to 2,200 or 2,400 pounds depending on where you find the stat. I have not seen anything about a split capacity base on trailer brakes for my car. At the time, I found the lower stat, and the Outback had the higher capacity, which I attributed to the Outback having a slightly longer wheelbase.

My 192 lists a displacement of 1400 pounds. And we know how reliable that is likely to be... (seriously under-estimated, for sure.) Trailer is something like 500 pounds on the title, and who knows how accurate that is? So, you can be pretty sure that when I tow, I am at my tow limit, if not over. And I mostly tow with almost nothing in the boat, and the 5hp 4 stroke in the back of the Foz. I typically tow the boat about 15-20 miles at a time, over rolling hills of Southeastern PA. So, really, not very stressful terrain at all. But I am also paranoid of destroying my transmission, and of jack-knifing while braking, so I don't generally go on highways, and even if I did I don't go over 50mph.

Your Foz is older than mine, and I know my year changed to a new engine design, so it has a bit more torque and HP than your 2006 Foz. I think you would be perfectly fine towing a Vic 18, lighter than my 192, depending on what your towing needs are. If you are like me, back and forth to my lake once a year, over slower back roads, I surely don't think you'd need trailer brakes.

Now, when I bought the Foz, I had a Boston Whaler Harpoon 4.6, which specs about 450 pounds, trailer, what, 300-400 pounds? I used to tow that up and back from the DE and NJ beaches 2.5 hour trips, and at 70mph (but not all that time. There was that one time I was trying to get somewhere before they closed. 70mph was nuts.) Then I went and bought the O'day, but didn't upgrade tow platforms. I would love to get a 6 cylinder vehicle, which would get me somewhere around 4K or 5K pounds of tow capacity (Nissan Pathfinder, 5K.) If I wanted car payment again, I'd be able to tow to the Adirondacks, or Chesapeake, or anywhere else, really, with impunity. But I also know that my fantasies of vacationing on the boat are unrealistic, and the reality of a car payment again really sucks.

 

[Solarfry]

Why don't you install an after market oil transmission cooler? Usually the issue is trannys get too hot so mfgrs limit the towing. I have been able to tow up to 4,000 lbs with an Outback. 1300 # over the factory limit. No issues. It doesn't even get hot. That is towing a 19' powerboat with an F150 on a galvanized trailer. The automatic transmission automatically determines the best gear for the conditions. Of course the trailer had brakes. So stopping was not an issue either.

A man should have at least 4 different boats. One of each kind. It's a birth right.

BTW. I would rather have a Victoria than a sunfish. The sunfish is not self righting and is tiny.

 

[Brian S]

A man should have at least 4 different boats. One of each kind. It's a birth right.

What? Only 4 different boats?!?!? I once counted it up (if I magically became independently wealthy) and I had like, 10 different boats listed.

BTW. I would rather have a Victoria than a sunfish. The sunfish is not self righting and is tiny.

Sunfish are darn fun. Even if you don't really know what you're doing. I almost wrote that boats like Laser, Force 5, RS Aero are more fun than a Sunfish when it gets breezy, but then I remembered that you kinda need to know what you're doing to achieve that fun factor in one of those boats. Whereas with a Sunfish, you just need to know basics of sail trim, and how to right them, and you're good to go.

Pulling on the drysuit, dragging out the Force 5, and meeting up with a guy with a Laser this Saturday. It's not too cold yet; last year I sailed on Black Friday. We'll see how far I get this year.

 

[Justin_NSA]

or a BIG ease. You can tell by the flag that the apparent wind is on the beam, and he's trimmed for close hauled. That's making the boat unhappy, and why he's got the tiller pulled in hard to keep that angle. He's a smart guy, so I'm guessing he was screwing around.

Correct as usual. Some guys just like the thrill of putting the rail in the water. I'm more about speed.

 

[RussC]

I just happened to bump into this post again that contains some interesting Vic 18 design comments. I know nothing about the posters credentials, but the one (PAR) does appear quite knowledgeable about design in general, and the Vic in particular (see final post in thread).
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/adding-ballast-keel-20293.html

 

[Brian S]

I just happened to bump into this post again that contains some interesting Vic 18 design comments. I know nothing about the posters credentials, but the one (PAR) does appear quite knowledgeable about design in general, and the Vic in particular (see final post in thread).
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/adding-ballast-keel-20293.html

It's true, increasing ballast/righting moment increases rig loads. I recall Judy Blumhorst talking about this when she had naval architect Jim Antrim revise her West Wight Potter 19 into a bulb lifting keel design including bowsprit and large Code 0 asym.

 

[sothrnykee]

I started with this: View attachment 129491 graduated to this: View attachment 129493

and now own this: View attachment 129494

This took 47 years to accomplish...and I only wish I could have started with this:

View attachment 129495

My choice for you is the boat above. You could end up with this:

View attachment 129496

Welcome Aboard!!! The details provided by each responder so far says it all. I thought I just add graphics.

Love the Victoria 18 - Fun fact...the one pictured here was mine. i was half owner and my boyfriend sold it from under me without me consent. I wish that I still had it, was a very fun boat...lucky I didn't see it back up at Lake Arthur in PA - I would have loved to have seen the paperwork for the sale. The signature for me was clearly forged. Enjoy the boat - whoever has bought it

 

[Will Gilmore]

I've always thought ComPac 16's were adorably cute. My wife wanted one badly, AFTER we already owned a Catalina 22, based on her being able to transport, launch and sail it without me. It took some doing to talk her down out of that tree.

I read some chick's blog who regularly sailed a ComPac 16 from Florida to the Bahamas and back.

The ComPac 16 is the Clark Mills Suncat. Clark had one for himself. Very nice boat. My father had Clark redesign one for him to include a keel into which he put a small volvo diesel inboard, and he added a bow spirit to fly a genny. He wanted a small boat to sail around overnight among the islands of Maine. I helped him sail Puff up from Clearwater to Maine. I joined him somewhere around Atlantic City. She sailed very well.
I was going to buy her from him, but he sold her just before I was ready to make my offer.

As far the Sunfish vs the Victory goes, the Victory's rig is common to most larger boats and what you learn there will translate easily. The sunfish uses a kind of crab claw rig that is exceedingly easy to work. You'll learn about sailing in general and get a feel for wind and sea, but you may be a little lost, at first, on a bigger boat, after that. No big deal, just a little more learning.

The sunfish isn't self righting, but it is much easier to right than a laser or a hobie. It won't sink of swamped.
Jackdaw's earlier question and point about launching is worth considering. With a keel, even a small one, there are short, shallow boat ramps that won't accommodate her well.
I would recommend getting both. Enjoy the the sunfish right away, there will be repairs and/or changes you are likely to want to make on the Victory.
However, you can't really make a wrong choice here. Changing your mind will only take a little of your time. I'm pretty sure you can get you money back of you decide to sell and move on or up.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[RussC]

The sunfish isn't self righting, but it is much easier to right than a laser or a hobie. It won't sink of swamped.
Jackdaw's earlier question and point about launching is worth considering. With a keel, even a small one, there are short, shallow boat ramps that won't accommodate her well.
I would recommend getting both. Enjoy the the sunfish right away, there will be repairs and/or changes you are likely to want to make on the Victory.
However, you can't really make a wrong choice here. Changing your mind will only take a little of your time. I'm pretty sure you can get you money back of you decide to sell and move on or up.

- Will (Dragonfly)

I'm guessing the OP has it figured out by now, since his original post was Oct of 2016
But for others future reference, I owned a Victoria 18 for a couple years and it's a great little boat. super quick/easy set-up, launches anywhere you could launch a larger swing keel boat, and sails excellent, with the one caveat that they do have quite a bit of weather helm that won't "tune out". we sold ours due to the "cabin" being so tiny, and the fact that my wife had a hard time with the initial instability. they're only ~ 5' wide, so initial they feel very unstable, like being in a canoe. once you get sailing and healed over 15-20* they firm up nicely and feel rock solid. I don't know what it would take to actually knock one down, as I did have several opportunities that would have put lesser craft in jeopardy. it always felt very safe in a blow. I also thought it had some of the nicest lines of any boat on the lake, which has to count for something

 

[agprice22]

On the Vic 18... that is a stylish little vessel! Plus, it is ready for adventure! Shucks, you could add a diesel and a tank and only use part of that cockpit! I am seeing some slats to cross the footwell and a bedroll under a boom tent for overnights at anchor.

 

[agprice22]

Forward end cockpit drain solution:

I had these on my C22. Just use butyl rubber to stick them over the drains. They keep leaves from clogging the drains.
They are sink strainers available at Lowe’s

 

[Will Gilmore]

I also thought it had some of the nicest lines of any boat on the lake, which has to count for something

It reminds me of my mariner 19. Love the large cockpit. Cabin mostly for sleeping and storage.
I missed the OP date. Saw a few interesting comments, then the one about the ComPac.

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[RussC]

It reminds me of my mariner 19. Love the large cockpit. Cabin mostly for sleeping and storage.
I missed the OP date. Saw a few interesting comments, then the one about the ComPac.

- Will (Dragonfly)

You'd need to be younger, or at least more flexible than I, to voluntarily sleep in the cabin of a Vic . I guess some folks do sleep in the "torpedo tubes", but the v-berth is pretty small (kids ok). an adult (I'm 6'1") can easily sit on each side just inside the cabin headroom wise, but it's a little tight due to the narrow width of the craft.
I sold mine to a young couple with two small kids (6-8yr?) and they should really enjoy it, but most of us old fogies.... not so much. The cockpit is indeed long for an 18' craft, even though it's not very wide.