First sailboat advice: Sunfish or Victoria 18

RussC · Oct 25, 2016

Jackdaw said:
Ohh i doubt that. If you get anywhere close to 90, that huge bathtub of a cockpit will fill up and you're in real trouble. The few sinkings I know of happened like that. He's my buddy Glen getting about as close as he finds comfortable, maybe 45. Like I said, fun boat.

But isn't the point of vanishing stability a theoretical point based on ballast amount and placement, center of gravity, etc?
At some point prior to that I think I'd want to at least close up the hatch however.

Gunni · Oct 25, 2016

Well, there's theoretical and then there is real, and these older design boats with deep bathtub cockpits and low freeboard represent a challenge if you heel them in. That is why the newer dinghy designs went to the self-draining cockpits. Just do what the log canoe sailors do - carry a nest of drywall buckets! ...and keep those cuddy boards in place.

David in Sandusky · Oct 25, 2016

Learned to sail (and dated my future wife and Admiral) on a Moth - like the one design Butterfly.

Then I learned to optimize my sailing in the Key West Naval Sailing Association on a Sunfish, racing monthly against 30 other 20 somethings. I have sailed solo sailed a Sunfish on vacation for the last 50 summers in the Thousand Islands of New York. If I knew a racing fleet of Sunfish on Lake Erie, I might recommend 2 years in such a fleet before moving up to the Vic 18. But I know of no such Sunfish fleet. Erie, PA would be the place for one if it existed. But I hav cruised there several times, a never seen a fleet of Sunfish. No faster way to learn how to trim a sail, and control heel.

But the Admiral and I sailed a Rhodes 19 in Narragansett Bay when I was at Navy OCS. What fun! Not as intense a learning experience, but still really good, and fun with a crew of one or two. The Vic 18 sounds like the Rhodes 19, so I that would be my choice. And do take a keel, cruising boat sailing class wherever you can. On the Vic 18, you could even "camp" overnight at the Erie State Park Bay off the NW corner of Erie Bay. A beautiful place, one of the best on Lake Erie! Go here for lunch on the hook of you are not yet up for an overnight.

Then, someday, you can upgrade to a great cruising boat like our '77 h27!

Fair winds, and following seas.

Gunni · Oct 25, 2016

The Rhodes19 is a great starter boat and a surprisingly seaworthy boat, fun to sail. The Mariner 19 variant gives you real cuddy-cabin camping space. It is like a mini-cruiser.

BlowMeAway · Oct 25, 2016

I started with this:

graduated to this:

and now own this:

This took 47 years to accomplish...and I only wish I could have started with this:

My choice for you is the boat above. You could end up with this:

Welcome Aboard!!! The details provided by each responder so far says it all. I thought I just add graphics.

JRacer · Oct 25, 2016

Get both. You'll save some steps!

I've had keel boats for thirty five years and always had at least one dingy of some flavor for fun when you want to go screaming across the lake and get wet. Welcome aboard.

Ken Cross · Oct 25, 2016

Boats of that size would rarely have brakes. They can be added if you are mechanically inclined. Depending on wheel size it may be difficult to locate parts that will work for you.

Do a few minutes part shopping online.
Ken

BlowMeAway · Oct 26, 2016

As Ken has indicated the weight might be a problem for tow. But that boat looks perfect for a "Three Hour Tour".

Gene Neill · Oct 26, 2016

I've always thought ComPac 16's were adorably cute. My wife wanted one badly, AFTER we already owned a Catalina 22, based on her being able to transport, launch and sail it without me. It took some doing to talk her down out of that tree.

I read some chick's blog who regularly sailed a ComPac 16 from Florida to the Bahamas and back.

SFS · Oct 26, 2016

Go with the Vic18 rather than the Sunfish, based on two factors already mentioned. You can't get but two people on a Sunfish (and neither will be comfortable), and you are going to be wet all the time on the Sunfish. If the bug has bitten, you want as long a sailing season has possible.

It's not against the rules to change automobiles to accommodate a sailboat. You would not be the first.

rgranger · Oct 26, 2016

WOW!.... that IS a BIG cockpit for such a small boat. It does look fun. Looks like Glen could use some rail meat.

rgranger · Oct 26, 2016

What does the cockpit drain look like in that boat? If it is anything less than 2", I think that would be one of my first modifications.

Jackdaw · Oct 26, 2016

RussC said:
But isn't the point of vanishing stability a theoretical point based on ballast amount and placement, center of gravity, etc?
At some point prior to that I think I'd want to at least close up the hatch however.

Not really, and there is more to it than that.

First the calculation takes into acccount deck design. This is important because it allows changes in the center of buoyancy and downflooding to factor.

125 is a great AVS number, and normally only attainable with boats with long deep keels to give them a big Righting Moment (RM). Full keeled boats typically have lower AVS numbers.

Think about 125 AVS. This means that the mast is 35 degrees down and into the water. What is really happening is that the submerged hull is pressing UP and flipping the boat, and the low RM keel cannot resist that as the RM is INSIDE the CB.

AVS is calculated by the designer if they have computer modeled the design of the boat. Pretty sure that didn't happen with the V18, and that number was just created by someone on the internet.

Don't get me wrong, I love the V18 and remember when you first looked at yours. Just typing to paint an objective view for someone looking at one vs another design.

Crazy Dave Condon · Oct 26, 2016

rgranger;

there are two cockpit drains and if memory serves me they cross one another underneath inside to the thru hull drains. There was a reason for that design

rgranger · Oct 26, 2016

Crazy Dave Condon said:
rgranger;

there are two cockpit drains and if memory serves me they cross one another underneath inside to the thru hull drains. There was a reason for that design

Yeah... two drains makes sense.

The Coronado 25 I used to own had that same set up.

r

RussC · Oct 26, 2016

Crazy Dave Condon said:
rgranger;

there are two cockpit drains and if memory serves me they cross one another underneath inside to the thru hull drains. There was a reason for that design

Yes. Don is correct as usual. The two forward mounted cockpit drains connect through 1" hoses to through hull fitting on opposite sides of each drain. If through hulls were connected to the same side as the drain, water would come into the cockpit when heeled over. as it is, the water level remains an inch or two below the drains during normal heel angles and boat loads. they would keep rain water, etc, from filling the cockpit. the only time I've had water inside wile sailing was when we were heavily loaded with 4 adults. we got our feet wet that day, and now I have plugs onboard that I place in the drains if we take passengers

. I'd hate to rely on the system to drain a really swamped boat, but I recon' the system does it's job ok otherwise.

RussC · Oct 26, 2016

rgranger said:
WOW!.... that IS a BIG cockpit for such a small boat. It does look fun. Looks like Glen could use some rail meat.

Large cockpit, and the boom is high enough that even I don't have to duck when tacking (I'm ~6'1").
I suspect Glen was intentionally trying to heel the boat like that (photo op?

) I haven't gotten quite that brave with mine, but I've intentionally pushed it over 25*+ just to see how how the boat liked it..... Tweety just shrugged it off and was wondering when I was going to start really heeling her over

Crazy Dave Condon · Oct 27, 2016

The biggest problem with cockpit drains like on the Victoria 18, the older style Catalina 22 cockpit drains in the floor and others, make sure you are at least a mile from trees as those darn leaves will find those drains and clog the top of them in the fall and with a lot of rain and no one down to the boat in a long time, well, cockpit fills up and overflows into cabin. Once the marina called to advise a sailboat was going to sink so I came with equipment. As it turned out, the owner allowed ducks to roost and build a nest of all things over the cockpit drains. The companionway boards were locked so I took my universal key called bolt cutters to drain out the interior as well. To see duck poo floating in the cockpit was a sight but oh the smell was so bad the other boat owners supplied beer when I drained the boat, hosed it down and cleaned that rat trap. I went back to the shop with customers there and was banned from inside by customers.