Recently, I was invited to crew on a passage from Virginia to Bermuda. The skipper was a stranger, and the invitation came as a result of my having signed up at one of the online forums that connects skippers with crews. The timing was good for me, and I have been dreaming of such a passage for years. I informed the skipper that I was good to go, subject to some due diligence. I requested an opportunity to meet him and see the boat, some referrals from former crew members and a copy of the most recent inspection of the boat. The skipper was accommodating on the first two requests, but replied that showing me the inspection report was “totally inappropriate.” Seems to me before committing to a risky adventure with a complete stranger on an unknown vessel, one is wise to learn all one can about both the stranger and the vessel. Was I out of line? Or was he trying to hide something?
Etiquette Question
- Thread starter enorfleet
- Start date
I don't know many owners that routinely have their boats 'inspected'.
Having a survey done during a purchase isn't even done in many instances. While it may be prudent to get a survey (inspection), it depends often on the size of the vessel and the insurance company. Having the Coast Guard auxiliary do a courtesy safety inspection is voluntary.
I would thing asking for an inspection report would not be appropriate.
Having a survey done during a purchase isn't even done in many instances. While it may be prudent to get a survey (inspection), it depends often on the size of the vessel and the insurance company. Having the Coast Guard auxiliary do a courtesy safety inspection is voluntary.
I would thing asking for an inspection report would not be appropriate.
He didn't say there was no (recent) inspection. Rather, he denied access to it implying one does exist. That seems like the proverbial 'red flag' to me.
However, if you are intent on going, you could make your participation contingent on your own survey if you are willing to chance wasting time and money traveling to the boat if it turn out he is hiding something.
However, if you are intent on going, you could make your participation contingent on your own survey if you are willing to chance wasting time and money traveling to the boat if it turn out he is hiding something.
Unless he carried more than 6 paying passengers he would be an "uninspected" vessel by CG, was he charging and what "inspection report" did you want or expect to see ?
What did you expect to receive in response to this request?
For me it would have been the survey from when I purchased it. For a recreational vessel there's no requirement for regular inspections, and no standard from or report that I have ever heard of.
if there is no inspection (survey), the owner would have simply said that. No other explanation makes any sense.
Who would have inspected the vessel, and for what? What is inspected? Who here has had this inspection? A good captain inspects, supervises repairs, provisions, plans... but does he do a 3rd party inspection with a report? I have not heard of it. To say it is inappropriate may mean the captain believes the prospective crew is requiring it be done or have been done. The prospective crew had no right to expect this, the captain is saying. I do not think this 3rd hand account is enough to indict a captain of underhanded dealing.
If this was for a sanctioned offshore race, then asking to see a copy of the pre-race inspection might not be inappropriate. Certainly your next of kin would like to know that the vessel you are sailing on meets ORC standards would be appropriate.
On the other hand, if this was for a simple delivery and there was no sanctioning body, then the request would be for something that didn't exist.
It would also be fair for you to be familiar with offshore racing requirements and to personally inspect the boat before leaving. That would not be inappropriate.
On the other hand, if this was for a simple delivery and there was no sanctioning body, then the request would be for something that didn't exist.
It would also be fair for you to be familiar with offshore racing requirements and to personally inspect the boat before leaving. That would not be inappropriate.
I only do offshore deliveries for & with people I know. I'm kind of fussy about that. I'm also fussy about giving the boat the once over before we leave port.
Questions I might ask would include -
Who is going with us?
What are their qualifications/experience levels/known medical issues?
What type & quantity of provisions do we plan to carry?
What do we have in the way of life raft, SSB, Sat phone, EPIRB, Spot Tracker, other offshore safety gear?
What do we have for redundant nav systems?
On some boats, also redundant steerage device.
On some boats, also keel inspection results
I also like to take the boat out for a local day sail before committing to an offshore delivery. I like to do a shake down run.
But then, I'm a bit of a pain in the neck sometimes.
The list of questions above is a list of questions that I might ask. That is because what I actually do ask will depend on how well I already know the boat, boat owner & other crew members.
My most basic advice is -
If YOU are not comfortable for any reason, then don't go.
Questions I might ask would include -
Who is going with us?
What are their qualifications/experience levels/known medical issues?
What type & quantity of provisions do we plan to carry?
What do we have in the way of life raft, SSB, Sat phone, EPIRB, Spot Tracker, other offshore safety gear?
What do we have for redundant nav systems?
On some boats, also redundant steerage device.
On some boats, also keel inspection results
I also like to take the boat out for a local day sail before committing to an offshore delivery. I like to do a shake down run.
But then, I'm a bit of a pain in the neck sometimes.
The list of questions above is a list of questions that I might ask. That is because what I actually do ask will depend on how well I already know the boat, boat owner & other crew members.
My most basic advice is -
If YOU are not comfortable for any reason, then don't go.
I think the problem is that the OP does not feel experienced enough to know whether he should or should not feel comfortable, whether he is asking the right questions. I think he would have to hope the captain does not personalize the request for the inspection info and is open to more questions along Jim’s line.
Serious blue water trip.. I would look at all the standing rigging terminals and check out the running rigging ..
What is the navigation plan for loss of battery power .. can you get fresh water out of the tanks if there is no battery.. Does the boat have an appropriate life raft and ditch bag.. functioning EPIRB on board.. then running rigging to look for chafe ..Planned watch schedule.. Galley duty.. Usually you can look at a boat and tell if it has been maintained well enough to attempt this kind of trip..
I'd go for it with the option to walk if you see something wonky..
As Jim in Palm Beach said, I have only done deliveries with friends/and or friends of friends.. We typically had a crew/skipper meeting to plan stuff and talk about any items of concern.. anyone who'd begin with adversarial things instead of thought out questions would be dis-invited..
What is the navigation plan for loss of battery power .. can you get fresh water out of the tanks if there is no battery.. Does the boat have an appropriate life raft and ditch bag.. functioning EPIRB on board.. then running rigging to look for chafe ..Planned watch schedule.. Galley duty.. Usually you can look at a boat and tell if it has been maintained well enough to attempt this kind of trip..
I'd go for it with the option to walk if you see something wonky..
As Jim in Palm Beach said, I have only done deliveries with friends/and or friends of friends.. We typically had a crew/skipper meeting to plan stuff and talk about any items of concern.. anyone who'd begin with adversarial things instead of thought out questions would be dis-invited..
Yes, and no big deal.
Alternatively you get yourself down to the boat for a meet and greet and specifically request an orientation to the boat and all systems and equipment. This goes both ways, you don't want a sail on an unprepared boat, and I don't want you ignorant regarding how things work, or where to find the important stuff.
Common sense works! I think that your request for "copy of the most recent inspection" was a little off-putting because it indicated that you really didn't know what you were asking for - the request is too general, with no specificity. No offense to you, but I think that his response "totally inappropriate" was more about the owner saying, 'if you don't know what you are asking for, then why are you asking me for an inspection report?'. It may have simply been his way of saying that it appears that you don't have the experience to know what to ask for.
As others have suggested, you might have simply asked if there had been a recent survey on the boat, or if the boat has ever had ORC inspection. You may have gotten a better response, such as 'no, but if you want to get acquainted, let's get together soon and I'll show you all of the safety features'. People tend to get a little defense when faced with a demand to produce something that they aren't necessarily required to have. I think it was simply a miscommunication and if you want to do the trip, try to smooth things over and start again with an open mind.
I don't see that it is necessarily bad form to ask. However, if you were looking for the surveyor's report, that might be tantamount to asking for the company's financials before agreeing to work for them.
A daysail is beneficial for both parties. You have to know what you are getting into and so does the captain.
-Will (Dragonfly)
A daysail is beneficial for both parties. You have to know what you are getting into and so does the captain.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I purchased a boat last year, which was not near my home port and I had to hire a captain to sail my new boat. He immediately asked for my pre-purchase survey to act as a baseline for him to know what condition this boat was in since he was agreeing to sail and live aboard the boat for a week during the delivery. I did not find that request inappropriate, even a little. That being said, the situation was a little different. The captain was not the owner in my case, and wanting to protect his crew and self he wanted as much information as possible. The fact that he requested it actually made me respect his seaworthiness even MORE. He also spent 1/2 day in port performing his own personal survey before setting sail. I'm not sure if the skipper you mention was/is also the owner (probably yes)... If so, I would personally assume the seaworthiness of the sailor probably is somewhat aligned with the seaworthiness of the vessel. You could ask a few questions about the vessel, and his experience as an off-shore sailor, etc. etc... small talk about sailing can tell you a lot about a person's experience level. While I'm sure this will be a controversial statement... I think I would prefer sailing with an outstanding captain in a crappy boat that barely floats instead of sailing on an outstanding boat with a crappy captain who barely sails. Neither is perfect of course... but I'd focus on the captain, and if he seems truly worthy of your trust, then you can trust that he's making sure the vessel is sound.
Asking for a pre-purchase survey for a boat that you just bought is a normal and specific request froma delivery captain - indicating that the captain knows what he is looking for. It's different than demanding a recent inspection report from the long-time owner of a boat, whom may not have anything recent.
I love a sign that hangs on the wall of a colleague … "Being somewhat of a bullshitter myself, I love to hear an expert in action! Please, carry on …" I usually take all conversations with a stranger with the grain of salt!
Absolutely no way … a crappy boat that barely floats will sink just as readily no matter whom is captain. I'm sure your statement is just an illustration, but why would an outstanding captain be sailing a crappy boat that barely floats?