Electronics
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,454
Captain Larry hits all the high points.
Numbers 1 & 2 are important safety factors for a boat. The matching of a chartplotter to the radar unit will maximize the system.
Item 3 helps to simplify the installation and operation, but with the modern units using NMEA networks, they integrate more easily than in past years.
Item 5 In waters where ships operate, AIS is a real plus. The VHF radios will warn you of the ships. When integrated with your chartplotter, some will position the AIS targets on your chart. This is helpful, but does not relieve you of maintaining a situational visual awareness of what is sharing the waters. Because our AIS transmitter was in operation, we were hailed by a BC ferry Captain while navigating to our anchorage in a snowstorm under 50-yard visibility. The captain called out our boat by name, and we discussed how we were planning to navigate the passage between two islands. We passed each other without seeing each other.
I disagree they are safety factors through integration. That depends upon how you wish to set up your boat and how each individual interprets data.Captain Larry hits all the high points.
Numbers 1 & 2 are important safety factors for a boat. The matching of a chartplotter to the radar unit will maximize the system.
I have mine set up with independent units with no need to integrate them. When I've run fully integrated systems, I find them much more difficult to work with and in fact notably less "safe" than running standalone systems.
Example - I'm sailing into a port in Maine, there are a lot of fishing boats, commercial boats, some fog, tons of lobster traps, a few recreational boats and I'm running a high end totally integrated system. The AIS and RADAR are both overlaid onto the chart plotter. The RADAR is obscuring the AIS signal and the charts such that I can't see all objects from all three systems. I turn the RADAR overlay off so now my AIS and chart data is visible, but I'm missing the RADAR data which I'd sure like to have due to the fog. So now I pop the chart display into split screen mode and put the RADAR onto one side and the AIS and charts on the other side. So now I'm looking at screen half the size I'm used to seeing but hey, it's doable. Now all the time it's taken me to first figure out it's the radar signal messing up the display, then turning it off, then realizing I need it, go into double screen mode and bring it back up - all this time I'm dodging lobster pots that are hard as he!! to see due to their size and the fog. What a major pain in the a$$! And in the end - it doesn't work as well as having independent screens.
Compare to how I have my boat set-up with independent units and screens. I sail into a port in Maine, there are a lot of fishing boats, commercial boats, some fog, tons of lobster traps, a few recreational boats and I'm running my independent systems. I spend 0 time worrying about what I can and can't see through my devices, I am not wasting any time fussing around with display output, I can focus on dodging the lobster pots, keeping an eye on all boat traffic, channel markers etc. and still have 100% of all output from my devices that I'm used to.
I definitely take the second option any day.
dj
Fam got me a Garmin 178C Sounder chart-plotter in 2004 and I integrated it with our Autohelm 6000/7000 autopilot. Still doing the job. No need/want for AIS or radar, even though I've sailed in soup-fog many times. No worries here. I just follow normal fog practice when underway. with my tooter.
Another Maine Sail gem, see reply #15
Fog!!!
I've only sailed in fog on 2 occasions and I didn't like either of them. The first was a race in Long Beach, Ca. Why a race committee would allow a race in that condition is beyond me but we were out there. The skipper decided to drop out of the race but we were not sure where we were. In front...
forums.sailboatowners.com
@Stu Jackson excellent links!
I 100% agree with Mainsails comments!
I forgot to add in my description above that there were two recreational power boats flying - not quite at 30 knots, but darned close - that I was tracking with the RADAR as they had 0 AIS, RADAR reflectors, no fog soundings or lights on... and they were bloody hard to see on the RADAR.... And then I had to turn the darned thing off to see the channel markers - then add the time to switch to split screen and bring it back up... Oh yeah, and I didn't actually know there were two of them until I got the clear screen on the split screen....
I'm curious how many folks on here know when - according to the Col Regs - that you need to use a fog horn?
In fog conditions I mainly use my RADAR for self-preservation, although it's also very useful to creep through dense fog if the need arises... Also, dense fog attenuates the RADAR signal - you need to learn just how much.... You don't see as far or as well...
dj
I 100% agree with Mainsails comments!
I forgot to add in my description above that there were two recreational power boats flying - not quite at 30 knots, but darned close - that I was tracking with the RADAR as they had 0 AIS, RADAR reflectors, no fog soundings or lights on... and they were bloody hard to see on the RADAR.... And then I had to turn the darned thing off to see the channel markers - then add the time to switch to split screen and bring it back up... Oh yeah, and I didn't actually know there were two of them until I got the clear screen on the split screen....
I'm curious how many folks on here know when - according to the Col Regs - that you need to use a fog horn?
In fog conditions I mainly use my RADAR for self-preservation, although it's also very useful to creep through dense fog if the need arises... Also, dense fog attenuates the RADAR signal - you need to learn just how much.... You don't see as far or as well...
dj
Yeah, an upgrade to my VHF radio is something I'm looking at. Especially to have that fog horn function. But your visibility distance is well below the Col Regs requirement...
dj
Many radars have a ring of close-in clutter that is difficult to tune out without reducing sensitivity to other targets. I suspect that might be an issue experienced by some of you. The newest generation from all brands is better at close-in resolution, but B&G excels at close target clarity with no close-in clutter ring.
My current-generation Raymarine Quantum 2 radar with Doppler and CHIRP is pretty good at suppressing this issue, but still not as good as B&G Broadband Radar. I usually put it on standby when I’m in a harbor picking our way between channel markers and boats on moorings, many less than 50 or 100 ft away, but in pea soup there’s no substitute for a sharp lookout (even better if someone can be on the radar and another at the bow watching and listening).
My current-generation Raymarine Quantum 2 radar with Doppler and CHIRP is pretty good at suppressing this issue, but still not as good as B&G Broadband Radar. I usually put it on standby when I’m in a harbor picking our way between channel markers and boats on moorings, many less than 50 or 100 ft away, but in pea soup there’s no substitute for a sharp lookout (even better if someone can be on the radar and another at the bow watching and listening).
True, and I tend to leave it on when going between patches, but practically speaking, if you can see 1/2 nm. or more you can avoid other vessels if you maintain a good watch the risk is pretty low.
Edit - thinking about it further I almost always have it on if visibility is less than about 1.5 or 2 miles. Lights too.
Edit2 - been away from the boat too long. Its getting to be a long winter
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I've had the pleasure of a pretty much one to one comparison between the B&G RADAR and the Si-Tex RADAR and I was not overly impressed with the B&G. Good unit for sure. But the Si-Tex stands up well to that and actually has greater functionality.
Look, any good RADAR is better than none if you need it...
dj
Since you are the only person that has bitten so far on the question of how far per Col Regs is restricted visibility I'll hold off on saying more.
This past summer I was contracted to be the engineer on a very high dollar sailboat and needed to refresh a lot of specifics on the Col Regs. Had all the insurance stuff to go through to get insurance approval blah blah blah..... Knowing we were sailing to Nova Scotia, I brushed up on correct fog behavior.... So it's pretty fresh in my mind.... I'll be curious if anyone else bites... I'll admit I was surprised at the regs...
dj
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 24,454
Panbo.com has been a great source of electronics reviews. They provide a quality review of on the water functions and differences.
I went to a class in Anacortes WA, sponsored by Waggoners Guide. What was clear in their presentation, find a radar that provides a clear and easy to use Graphic Interface.
Here are Parts 1,2 & 3 reviews by Panbo for your examination.
I went to a class in Anacortes WA, sponsored by Waggoners Guide. What was clear in their presentation, find a radar that provides a clear and easy to use Graphic Interface.
Here are Parts 1,2 & 3 reviews by Panbo for your examination.
Enclosed radars compared, including Garmin, Raymarine, and Simrad
I often shy away from recommending one manufacturer's products over another. I feel the comparison is usually highly subjective and what works for me may not work for others. But, an on-the-water comparison of Garmin, Raymarine, and Simrad's current radar units allows all of us to see the...
panbo.com
Garmin, Raymarine, and Simrad enclosed radars compared, part 2
Part 2 of Panbo's solid-state, enclosed dome radar comparison. We dive deeper into gain settings, MARPA, AIS, and more
panbo.com
Solid state radomes compared, part 3 - Furuno checks in
Comparing Furuno's DRS2DNXT to Simrad's Halo 20+ and Garmin's Fantom 18x. Let's see how their performance compares
panbo.com
Furuno TZT3 on the Water
Some of you will remember that I reviewed NavNet TZtouch2 for Panbo back in 2015 shortly after Furuno began delivering the system. Proving that I am an incorrigible “early adopter”, I am back to share initial impressions of the TZtouch3 MFDs and other new hardware that Furuno introduced last...
panbo.com
Garmin 741xs chartplotter, ($500) Has taken me accurately to a 1st place round the island race. Martha’s Vineyard has some current, rocks, and shoals. Nantucket sound haven’t run aground, lashed it to helm, powered it up. Super easy, garmin is very intuitive.
For me, I think what is a priority in terms of electronics, and balancing or planning a budget, is defined by what kind of sailing you plan to do. Day sailing requires much less and long distance much more.
I started from scratch on a 30ft sailboat. It had.. an old rotating depth sounder and an old VHF radio but it worked, and an old tiller autopilot (and I had a spare from a previous boat). I also had a newer waterproof handheld VHF (with GPS and Emergency DTS) which I always mounted to my life jacket. And navionics on my iPhone. I am experienced sailor, sailing solo or with guests that don't sail much, and I do distance sailing inshore.
So navigation-wise, it was safe to leave harbour with the above equipment.
My subsequent priority purchases were:
1. Navionics update on my phone.
2. A used IPad as a bigger screen and backup for my phone in case it dies.
3. New Depth Sounder (NMEA 2000)
4. A NMEA 2000 backbone kit (the cables) which is $150
and then...
5. AIS Transmitter/Receiver (NMEA 2000)
6. Actisense WK-1 (so it would transmit the NMEA 2000 data to my iphone such as depth and AIS details on Navionics charts)
This was an excellent start.
I did not think a large MFD display (eg. 7" to 10") mounted to the cabin was useful on a sailboat as I have tiller steering, no binnacle, and sitting far away from that position. Preferred to have that data in hand on an iphone or iPad. I still feel that is best for me. And that is especially true with other apps now availble on phones and ipads. For the money there are higher priorities.
The AIS was a bit forward thinking in 2001 but now so many boaters have them they are just looking at their screens instead of out the window. It has helped me to identify and hail vessels (like tugs) to confirm they have noticed me (visually and on AIS) or agree how we pass each other, or to keep other boaters (including commercial vessels) behaving themselves around me because all AIS is tracked and can be used in case of an incident. AIS also sets off alarms on other people's boats that have set their AIS collision alarms. Very happy to have purchased this. Great visibility. Egalitarian in terms of respect of position on the water... and greater civility all around.
Items to follow in order:
7. Raymarine MFD (i70s) - bit expensive and honestly nice to have and look at it all the time but should have been lower on the priorty list. What I discovered is an iphone or iPad can show you all of this NMEA data, close at hand, on free apps, with better resolution.
8. New autohelm (I didn't go off the shelf but many should. I did TinyPilot by Pypilot (hard to get now) and a tiller actuator by PCNautic, and while its a bit geeky, it is very reliable, and performs very well).
9. Backup cheap navigation system using a Raspberry Pi 5, and Openplotter (geeky but effective), and a 24" monitor all setup below at the nav station.
10. New VHF radio with GPS and Emergency DTS.
11. Windmeter (Anemometer).
And much later as I was then sailing to areas of frequent fog:
12. Radar
If I was on a budget and had older NMEA 0183 equipment I could get to work easily (like check the wiring) and reliably (depth, speed, wind) I would do that first. Its a good standard. But I wouldn't invest in it when buying new equipment. NMEA 2000 is the way to go, you can even run both systems, while you start to build that NMEA 2000 network as needed. If I was going on multi-day passages or offshore I would just start from scratch and invest in NMEA 2000.
I hope this is helpful for someone sailing my kind of boat and objectives.
Fair winds all!
I started from scratch on a 30ft sailboat. It had.. an old rotating depth sounder and an old VHF radio but it worked, and an old tiller autopilot (and I had a spare from a previous boat). I also had a newer waterproof handheld VHF (with GPS and Emergency DTS) which I always mounted to my life jacket. And navionics on my iPhone. I am experienced sailor, sailing solo or with guests that don't sail much, and I do distance sailing inshore.
So navigation-wise, it was safe to leave harbour with the above equipment.
My subsequent priority purchases were:
1. Navionics update on my phone.
2. A used IPad as a bigger screen and backup for my phone in case it dies.
3. New Depth Sounder (NMEA 2000)
4. A NMEA 2000 backbone kit (the cables) which is $150
and then...
5. AIS Transmitter/Receiver (NMEA 2000)
6. Actisense WK-1 (so it would transmit the NMEA 2000 data to my iphone such as depth and AIS details on Navionics charts)
This was an excellent start.
I did not think a large MFD display (eg. 7" to 10") mounted to the cabin was useful on a sailboat as I have tiller steering, no binnacle, and sitting far away from that position. Preferred to have that data in hand on an iphone or iPad. I still feel that is best for me. And that is especially true with other apps now availble on phones and ipads. For the money there are higher priorities.
The AIS was a bit forward thinking in 2001 but now so many boaters have them they are just looking at their screens instead of out the window. It has helped me to identify and hail vessels (like tugs) to confirm they have noticed me (visually and on AIS) or agree how we pass each other, or to keep other boaters (including commercial vessels) behaving themselves around me because all AIS is tracked and can be used in case of an incident. AIS also sets off alarms on other people's boats that have set their AIS collision alarms. Very happy to have purchased this. Great visibility. Egalitarian in terms of respect of position on the water... and greater civility all around.
Items to follow in order:
7. Raymarine MFD (i70s) - bit expensive and honestly nice to have and look at it all the time but should have been lower on the priorty list. What I discovered is an iphone or iPad can show you all of this NMEA data, close at hand, on free apps, with better resolution.
8. New autohelm (I didn't go off the shelf but many should. I did TinyPilot by Pypilot (hard to get now) and a tiller actuator by PCNautic, and while its a bit geeky, it is very reliable, and performs very well).
9. Backup cheap navigation system using a Raspberry Pi 5, and Openplotter (geeky but effective), and a 24" monitor all setup below at the nav station.
10. New VHF radio with GPS and Emergency DTS.
11. Windmeter (Anemometer).
And much later as I was then sailing to areas of frequent fog:
12. Radar
If I was on a budget and had older NMEA 0183 equipment I could get to work easily (like check the wiring) and reliably (depth, speed, wind) I would do that first. Its a good standard. But I wouldn't invest in it when buying new equipment. NMEA 2000 is the way to go, you can even run both systems, while you start to build that NMEA 2000 network as needed. If I was going on multi-day passages or offshore I would just start from scratch and invest in NMEA 2000.
I hope this is helpful for someone sailing my kind of boat and objectives.
Fair winds all!
