Electrical Fire

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sfgary

sfgary

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Sep 25, 2008
123
Challenger sloop Alameda
Well I had a very interesting day, I left my slip about 9:45 this morning and not more than a 1/2 mile later I noticed the speedo and depth gauge were not working. I went down below and noticed smoke coming from my battery box. I tried to turn the master switch off but it woudn't move and was very hot. I opened the hatch to the battery box and the salon filled with smoke.:eek: I disconnected a battery cable and called for the Coast Guard at which time a San Francisco police boat just happened to be coming down the Estuary to get thier boat serviced in Oakland. We got my guests onto the police boat and waited for the fire dept. A 45 foot Coast Guard tow boat showed up about 20 minutes later towed me back to my slip. The fire dept call was cancelled. I can't tell you how professional those Coasties were and how greatful I am to have them around. A big thanks to the marine division of the San Francisco police dept also. There were no injuries and now I get to deal with my insurance co.
 

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Jim Seamans

Jim Seamans

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Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Wasn't my fault, I'm in Pensacola....

Glad to hear everyone is ok, Gary. Will be interested in what happened and why the battery switch failed..
 
sfgary

sfgary

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Sep 25, 2008
123
Challenger sloop Alameda
I'm not sure either Jim, most of the wiring in the battery box and the panel is cooked. I have never had any issues with my electrical before. I will look into it a little more tomorrow.
 
Ross

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
We will soon hear from Mainesail about fuses at the batteries. ;)
 
GeorgiaBII

GeorgiaBII

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Jun 14, 2011
277
Hunter 22 Fin Keel Lake Martin
Fuses are great, until they blow and knuckleheads stick in bigger and bigger ones...

Man so sorry to hear about your problems. Hope it gets fixed soon.
 
shemandr

shemandr

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Jan 1, 2006
7,586
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I had one experience with fire on the water and it is scary. Glad no one was hurt. Your account didn't mention any use of a fire extingiusher. For the education of all on the forum - Did you use one? Was it more of a priority to disconnect the battery cable to remove the source of the fire? Was the fire contained to the wiring or did it spread to materials near the wiring?
I might or might not know, in the heat of the moment, to disconnect the battery cable. I don't know 100% that the alternator circuit, which may produce from 35 to 100 amps would be disabled from disconnecting the battery cable. Suppose this happened at the dock and the inverter/charger was plugged in. Would disconnecting the battery cable still work? I don't like to admit it but I don't know. Many of us can learn from this.
And a shout out to the Coasties for a job well done!
 
gpd955

gpd955

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Feb 22, 2006
1,164
Catalina 310 Cape May, NJ
GeorgiaBII said:
Fuses are great, until they blow and knuckleheads stick in bigger and bigger ones...
Click to expand
The secret to keeping the fuses from blowing is to use pennies. :)

Glad to hear you and your crew managed ok! Hopefully dealing with the insurance company will be easy. You may want to keep the plan about using pennies to yourself though!!
 
Timo42

Timo42

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Mar 26, 2007
1,042
Venture 22 Marina del Rey
Ross said:
We will soon hear from Mainesail about fuses at the batteries. ;)
Click to expand
Cheaper than rewiring... Just added terminal fuseblocks to both my batteries, $35ea.
"So simple a caveman could do it."
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Timo42 said:
Cheaper than rewiring... Just added terminal fuseblocks to both my batteries, $35ea.
"So simple a caveman could do it."
Click to expand
And a LOT less expensive than the loss of life, a burned boat or your insurance deductible.....

EVERY BOAT SHOULD HAVE FUSES AT THE + BATTERY POST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Yep you heard from me....;)
 
Ken Cross

Ken Cross

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Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Most electrical fires are not actually fire, but smoke from burning insulation and other items that come in contact with wiring. If it's electrical the first thing to do is remove the energy source. (engine off battery switch off, shore power off, generator off, etc.) The battery switch being stuck is surprising but a good indicator the problem is connected to the heavy wiring.

Often when a wire overheats or chafes against another conductor it will heat up and burn through insulation on other wires. This makes the problem bigger (and the repair bigger.) Once power is disconnected you then deal with any fire that may have been caused by the overheated wiring.

Depending on conditions the smoke can be extremely dangerous. In the commercial airplane world every part, every piece of glue, every piece of fabric has to pass flammability tests. It's a huge cost to manufacturers, but the goal is to survive after breathing some of it. I don't think there is an equivalent rule for the marine world, but then again we wouldn't be able to afford boats if it were enforced.
 
gpd955

gpd955

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Feb 22, 2006
1,164
Catalina 310 Cape May, NJ
Maine Sail said:
EVERY BOAT SHOULD HAVE FUSES AT THE + BATTERY POST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Click to expand
Maine...

Would these be acceptable or should they be the ones attached directly to the post??
 

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Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
gpd955 said:
Maine...

Would these be acceptable or should they be the ones attached directly to the post??
Click to expand
Those are fine, nice job!!! Ideally they should be covered to protect from the errant wrench but at least you have fuses. If that is a stand alone compartment not a big deal for post coverage but if "shared" the terminals would ideally get covered..

The ABYC standard is for the fuses (Class T, ANL or MRBF types meet the AIC requirments) to be placed within 7" of the + battery post. So long as the wire between the battery and fuse CAN NOT POSSIBLY SHORT then going a little longer is often fine. 7" can be next to impossible on many boats and any fuse is better than none..
 
RichH

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Maine - do you have a write-up somewhere on these? ... sizing for amps draw for 'starting loads' for rotating/inductive equipment, ie. winches/windlasses, inverters, etc.?

Im running a bank of gel 4Ds (183 Ah, 12V, 970 CCA) for my house bank, etc.

Thanx
regards
 
Maine Sail

Maine Sail

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Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
RichH said:
Maine - do you have a write-up somewhere on these? ... sizing for amps draw for 'starting loads' for rotating/inductive equipment, ie. winches/windlasses, inverters, etc.?

Im running a bank of gel 4Ds (183 Ah, 12V, 970 CCA) for my house bank, etc.

Thanx
regards
Click to expand
Rich,

It is really based on your wiring size and the max ampacity for the wire you are protecting. Whinch and windlass manufacturers will usually guide you on minimum fuse/breaker sizing for those loads (though some are off and breakers & fuses trip)...

You can safely size to 150% of the ABYC ampacity table in the link below but I generally try and size for 100%.

Here's a link: Battery Fusing - How Do I..?
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Gary, sorry to hear about your troubles. It would certainly be instructive to us all to learn what you find about what started it. Good luck sorting it out.
 
Don12364

Don12364

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Dec 2, 2003
1,637
Hunter 376 Warsash, England --
Gpd955

Would it not be safer if the other two heavy wires from both pos battery posts were also connected to the downstream side of your fuses and the thin yellow wire to have an in line fuse of appropriate rating.
When Hunter sent out additional fuses and wires for many boats they included a 10 amp one for my low current wiring.
Thanks Hunter.
 
sfgary

sfgary

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Sep 25, 2008
123
Challenger sloop Alameda
Well I have had a chance to look into the issue a little more and have found some interesting things. First some questions answered. I had a fire ext in hand with the pin pulled but since there was no flame I didn't use it. I have found the cables to the starter are fried also. I think that may be a large part of the problem. I'm also wondering if the alternator might be toast also? Its a 75 amp balmar. I have a 75 watt solar panel I got disconected so I hope its OK. I will take some pics of the damage I can see and post them soon. Thanks for all the well wishs and good thoughts. Once I get an electrician down to get an estimate and a firm reason for the problem I will let you know. I will be fusing the battery terminals for sure!

Gary
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

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Feb 26, 2004
23,047
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Gary, Ryan Schofield is a good guy, tends to overdo it unless you know what you want, but is very reliable.

Is your starter wired to the alternator? Or did you move your AO to the house bank?

Also hope you're aware that you can get a much less expensive alternator, thanks to Maine Sail, from ASE Supply in Washington State - Leece Neville units, 1/3 the $.
 
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