Electrical Fire
- Thread starter sfgary
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Dan,
These alts, the 8MR series, best fit a Universal or Westerbeke engine and replace the Motorolla foot print well..
BLUE SEA SYSTEMS Terminal Fuse Blocks are available at West Marine. The fuse is about $16 more. Easy to install. Easy to protect. Easy to inspect and replace the fuse.
If the correctly sized fuse opens a second time, there is a problem. Find the source of the problem, not a larger fuse.
Terminal Fuse Block, 3/8" Mounting Hole, 1 Terminal Stud
West Marine p/n: 9368895
Blue Sea p/n: 5191
$22.99
Terminal Fuse Block, 3/8" Mounting Hole, 2 Terminal Studs (in attached picture)
West Marine p/n: 10093839
Blue Sea p/n: 2151
$29.99
If the correctly sized fuse opens a second time, there is a problem. Find the source of the problem, not a larger fuse.
Terminal Fuse Block, 3/8" Mounting Hole, 1 Terminal Stud
West Marine p/n: 9368895
Blue Sea p/n: 5191
$22.99
Terminal Fuse Block, 3/8" Mounting Hole, 2 Terminal Studs (in attached picture)
West Marine p/n: 10093839
Blue Sea p/n: 2151
$29.99
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And another: Alternator Sources by Maine Sail (Reply #16)
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5686.15.html
Maine-And a LOT less expensive than the loss of life, a burned boat or your insurance deductible.....
EVERY BOAT SHOULD HAVE FUSES AT THE + BATTERY POST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep you heard from me....
Per ABYC and USCG, cranking motor circuits are exempt. In your practice, do you provide fuses sized to protect ALL wiring including cranking circuit, or do you treat it separately?
On sailboat AUX engines, yes both starter and house get fused. There simply is no excuse not to. On large diesels in 40+ foot power boats often no but the starter wire gets encased in conduit to protect it and fastened about every 6".
The boat I am heading out to now, to replace the burned up alternator, a go fast race boat, has three Odyssey TPPL AGM batteries, capable of delivering over 15,000 amps of short circuit current into a dead short. With that kind of current the wire jacket vaporizes in fractions of a second and the fire is quick to follow. Not fusing them is simply foolish when you look at the cost of the boat and insurance deductible....
We lost one of our junior race committee boats last summer to a dead short. A few minutes before the fire there were four kids under 8 on-board. Our entire yacht club fleet now has proper battery fuses..
Imagine if this had not caught fire shortly before the kids stepped onto the dock..
Even the single group 27 battery in a 15' Boston Whaler has waaaaaaay more than enough current to fry a boat, as our club quickly learned......Many of us in the ABYC fight very hard to get the wording around the "exemption" changed and in the next E-11 you will see some changes.. Ed Sherman the education director and Nigel Calder among others are in full agreement that a boat that "can" be fused should be fused. Unless you have some HUGE Cat's, Mann's Detroit's, Cummins etc. then you can fuse your banks, both of them...
I will continue my rant for battery fuses until every boat has them!
If you can afford to own a sail boat you can afford to FUSE the battery banks..
Maine-On sailboat AUX engines, yes both starter and house get fused. There simply is no excuse not to. On large diesels in 40+ foot power boats often no but the starter wire gets encased in conduit to protect it and fastened about every 6".
The boat I am heading out to now, to replace the burned up alternator, a go fast race boat, has three Odyssey TPPL AGM batteries, capable of delivering over 15,000 amps of short circuit current into a dead short. With that kind of current the wire jacket vaporizes in fractions of a second and the fire is quick to follow. Not fusing them is simply foolish when you look at the cost of the boat and insurance deductible....
We lost one of our junior race committee boats last summer to a dead short. A few minutes before the fire there were four kids under 8 on-board. Our entire yacht club fleet now has proper battery fuses..
Imagine if this had not caught fire shortly before the kids stepped onto the dock..
Many of us in the ABYC fight very hard to get the wording around the "exemption" changed and in the next E-11 you will see some changes.. Ed Sherman the education director and Nigel Calder among others are in full agreement that a boat that "can" be fused should be fused. Unless you have some HUGE Cat's, Mann's Detroit's, Cummins etc. then you can fuse your banks, both of them...
I will continue my rant for battery fuses until every boat has them!
What do you think is the cranking current for a typical V8 small block like would be found in a family runabout? Atomic 4? Typical 8-20HP inboard, (aux) diesel?
As standard practice, we follow ABYC guidelines for stereo installation recommendations, both as recommendation to consumer AND to the boat manufacturers, (you would be amazed how little some of the manufacturers really know about safe wiring). I wonder how cranking current compares with a mild, (really, this is mild) 2000 watt aftermarket runabout stereo system where we might see peak current draw upwards of 200A... Some of our single amplifiers can pull 90A continuous and we sell ANL fuse holders and fuses up to 300A.... This just for stereo gear.
In your experience, what is a typical curcuit protection recommendation for house and starter banks?
On E-11 I agree, if one can design a reliable over-current protection system that did not nuisance-trip even with a low voltage cranking circuit, E-11 needs to be modified to address the typical, (80-percent rule) family inboard, stern-drive, or runabout application. Very few know it but there are a LOT of factory installations where it is standard practice to install a fire hazard between the battery and cranking motor. I have access to committee draft docs; I am going to go look at the proposed wording changes now. Is there an ammended statement somehwere that clarifies or modifies the cranking circuit exemption?
Phil, IIRC MS has discussed this before, and the answers go something like this:
Size the wires for the load AND DISTANCE, size the fuses for the wire size, the inrush current for a starter is so short lived that the ANL fuses (and my Mega fuses) won't trip in that short a time.
I'd guess that MS is out working today on one of his client's boats (!), so he will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong when he gets home.
Here are a few pics of the damage. Robert I was as shocked as you when the coasties said they were going to tow me back to my slip. They said because this was a fire issue and I was in a shipping channel they would tow me back to the slip.
Gary
Gary
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Other than 2 inline fuses I'm not seeing ANY circuit protection in that rats nest. But what damage I see is fixable in an hour or so no big deal.
As has already been said you need a fuse at the battery but I also suggest a fuse block with a fuse for each circuit. That will limit problems to only the one area that is having the problem and not leave you without power when it's critical.
Hard to tell what caused the actual problem but a guess would be the main power switch there had loose connections and heat built up. But that fried neg cable makes me suspect a dead short.
As has already been said you need a fuse at the battery but I also suggest a fuse block with a fuse for each circuit. That will limit problems to only the one area that is having the problem and not leave you without power when it's critical.
Hard to tell what caused the actual problem but a guess would be the main power switch there had loose connections and heat built up. But that fried neg cable makes me suspect a dead short.
Gary, thanks for the followup, again sorry to hear about this. What is that big black (negative?) cable doing going to the battery switch. Of course, agree on fusing. Consider using bus bars or Power Posts for assembling wiring to avoid multiple connections at the battery. Good luck.
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