Electric Ferries Coming to Maine?

Hunter216

Hunter216

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
@danstanford
You likely already have this link but I thought I should post for others that are interested in the detail.

J88 Document Library

Read all that documents that you didn't bother to read when you bought the boat.
j88class.org

You mentioned above the original solar panel sails didn’t hold up well. Would you consider replacing them at some point?
 
danstanford

danstanford

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Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
Hunter216 said:
@danstanford
You likely already have this link but I thought I should post for others that are interested in the detail.

J88 Document Library

Read all that documents that you didn't bother to read when you bought the boat.
j88class.org

You mentioned above the original solar panel sails didn’t hold up well. Would you consider replacing them at some point?
Click to expand
I would be interested in any solution that would give me range more consistent with that of a diesel and that includes solar sails if I could generate considerable power with them. To be clear, I believe that for my use the plug in and use scenario will be a perfect fit. For the purposes of making here more easily salable when I need a change, I think I need to have a solution that someone can feel comfortable going anywhere at any time without feeling limited by range. It appears to me that almost everyone loves the idea of the electric powerplant but most see it as imperfect simply because of the range limits.
 
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Hunter216

Hunter216

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
I get having rigid panels or “flexible” panels on a boat. The limitation of “flexible” is that you could mount them on a curved surface but once mounted they don’t flex anymore.

The mounting places could be all the normal places but could conceivably be on a wing mast but the idea would be to NOT have the panels subjected to constant flexing.

The idea of the solar panel sail material being subjected to all the normal wear and tear associated with sailing leads me to think it wouldn’t stand up for long or wouldn’t be very efficient in producing power so why spend the boat bucks for little gain and endure the concern over taking “extra” care of the sails.
 
Hunter216

Hunter216

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
danstanford said:
You are correct, in fact there is a photo of it (second one down). My belief is that they are working on a sailcloth that is the “panel” as opposed to sewing in panels.
Click to expand
Their claim that their material is flexible enough to bend around a pencil certainly sounds like it could be part of a sail. When you look at how North and likely their competition are “laying up” sail”cloth” on a mold makes me think there is likely a product on the horizon.

Even more “futuristic” are spray on nanoparticle photovoltaic products that are being researched. Imagine the entire boat, sails included being a solar collector efficient enough that they would run the boat directly. The battery bank could be a layer of the hull layup ;)

I also often wonder what happened to the idea of using hydrogen as a power source, seems to have gotten lost in the solar/wind energy surge. There has been lots of research on even using the sun and/or photosynthesis to produce the hydrogen. After all there is no shortage of H2O, sunlight or algae on the planet we live on. ;)
 
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All U Get

All U Get

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Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
This morning it’s 44 degrees in Vero Beach, besides refrigeration some people like a little heat. Most boats here have been on the water for 3-4 months and all run generators to back up the solar and wind generators. I don’t believe we could add a large enough panel array to consistently move our twenty ton boat.
 
walt

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
More perspective..

The solar power from the sun reaching the earth is 1361 Watts / square meter (W/m**2)

At the surface and in best conditions, we might get 1000 W/m**2
(check out solar panel specs, they typically use this number as the input for peak output).

Solar panels are around 20% efficient (+/- a little) so at the very best produce around 200 W/m**2. And of course all sorts of conditions reduce the power output from that.

To get the power output of just 10 hp (7457 watts), and at very peak solar panel output of 200 W/m**2, you would need over 37 square meters of perfectly placed solar panel area.

Along the lines of the car pooping out bricks of CO2.. its mostly a good thing that we cant see CO2 as we would all be noticing the sky getting darker and darker each year. Many of us were around in 1960 when the CO2 concentration was around 315 PPM. It is now 416 PPM. That is a 32 percent increase in concentration in the atmosphere. If we could see CO2, we would likely all be freaking out LOL..
 
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dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,410
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
I now and again watch Sailing Uma, I do quite like their videos. I just watched one the other day about how they have set up their electrical system. Pretty well documented and some nice ideas. Might be interesting for you to watch.


dj
 
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Bob J.

Bob J.

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Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
dLj said:
I now and again watch Sailing Uma, I do quite like their videos. I just watched one the other day about how they have set up their electrical system. Pretty well documented and some nice ideas. Might be interesting for you to watch.


dj
Click to expand
I watched these folks when they first started their conversion. When I saw them trying to tweak a forklift motor to fit the ICE transmission, I stopped watching...

Looks like they've come along way &
made many sound decisions since that time. He even did the 48 volt water heater element, nice!
 
dLj

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,410
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Misfits said:
I watched these folks when they first started their conversion. When I saw them trying to tweak a forklift motor to fit the ICE transmission, I stopped watching...

Looks like they've come a long way & made many sound decisions since that time. He even did the 48 volt water heater element, nice!
Click to expand
Well, they started sailing within the limited budget they had at the time. As they have sailed more, and gotten more $'s they have been upgrading many parts of their boat. I find the evolution quite interesting. I think they have a pretty decent electrical installation at this point.

I'm personally not ready to go with an all electric boat, but the systems are definitely getting better and better. I am certainly keeping my eye on it. When the storage technology along with the solar panel technology make a couple more steps forward, then this is really getting into very much a good space for my needs. It's my understanding that solar panels in research are getting up close to something like 48% efficiency. Now that would be a major improvement. If the storage could also make that level of improvement, then I think the all electric boat would then become the most desired way to go.

dj
 
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Will Gilmore

Will Gilmore

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Oct 19, 2017
7,743
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Hey, I just had a thought for power generation at sea. How about a weighted turbine that spins on its way down. When it gets to a set depth (the end of its power cable), the magnesium capsule gets wet, fills a chamber with gas and floats it back to the surface to start all over again. Spinning both ways and providing a quick charge when becalmed.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Hunter216

Hunter216

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
I did a little research on salt water batteries. I think the term really should be salt water battery, I like the idea that the materials involved logically are more common and not as “nasty”. A few videos if you are interested.

Aquion a USA company couldn’t gain enough traction, didn’t make it and was sold to China.

Salt water battery - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org



There’s been some significant investment in solid state battery tech as well.

 
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Davidasailor26

Davidasailor26

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May 17, 2004
5,066
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Will Gilmore said:
Hey, I just had a thought for power generation at sea. How about a weighted turbine that spins on its way down. When it gets to a set depth (the end of its power cable), the magnesium capsule gets wet, fills a chamber with gas and floats it back to the surface to start all over again. Spinning both ways and providing a quick charge when becalmed.

-Will (Dragonfly)
Click to expand
Interesting idea. I don’t know how much energy you’d really be able to generate though, depending on the size of the device. Something like an inflatable PFD provides about 20 pounds of buoyancy. You’d need the device to sink before inflation, so figure you have 10 pounds of negative buoyancy down, and 10 pounds positive buoyancy coming back up.

So let’s generously say you have 10 kilograms of positive/negative buoyancy, and a tether that gives you a depth of 300 meters to work with. That would mean your potential energy of sinking is about 30,000 joules, which is 8 watt hours. Plus another 8 watt hours for surfacing. 16 watt hours in a 12V battery bank is about 1.3 amp hours, so hardly anything. That also assumes no losses to water resistance, and that you have a perfectly efficient energy conversion.

A much larger gas canister than the one in an inflatable lifejacket would help, but then you’re going to have a really big air bladder to deal with and repack, and you’re going to need to carry some heavy ballast and gas canisters with you while you sail. :(
 
Will Gilmore

Will Gilmore

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Oct 19, 2017
7,743
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
:( Darn!
I thought I might be on to something.
But...
Check this out

An ocean glider made it all the way across the Atlantic
 
Hunter216

Hunter216

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
Updated status for Ontario electric ferry’s.
That’s a lot of batteries!!

Values - Damen

Damen Shipyards Group values: ✔ Stewardship ✔ Craftsmanship ✔ Fellowship ✔ Entrepreneurship ☑️ Contact Us for cooperation on favorable terms!
www.damen.com www.damen.com
 
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TomY

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Hunter216 said:
Updated status for Ontario electric ferry’s.
That’s a lot of batteries!!

Values - Damen

Damen Shipyards Group values: ✔ Stewardship ✔ Craftsmanship ✔ Fellowship ✔ Entrepreneurship ☑️ Contact Us for cooperation on favorable terms!
www.damen.com www.damen.com
Click to expand
Those are serious ferry boats!
 
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