Electric Ferries Coming to Maine?

Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Maybe they can use the waves as a source of power, sort of an agitator generator. You all remember self-winding watches, right?

Let's not forget another source of power ferries have to tap into

After all, it's all to make the world healthier, right?

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
I am about to learn some of these elements for myself as I have just bought, but not yet cruised, an electric J/88. My thinking around the use of an auxiliary engine, which I will probably need, is a little different than what I keep reading on the topic. My last4 boats all had inboard diesels which I ran every time I left and returned to the dock. With the electric I believe I can always get on and off the dock plus cruising less than 20 nm so I will need to run the generator only when I get outside these parameters and there is no wind. In fact, I cannot think of more than 1 trip in the last 2 seasons where I would have had to run the generator.
Perfect, no but awfully close and I am betting that battery technologies will only get better plus there are many ways to generate electricity that may get small/efficient enough to replace the i.c.e. generator.
Dan
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Thanks jssailem.

Folks, I had no idea this thread would have morphed into my experience with electric.
If anything else it's an honest tale of my experiment. If anyone has considered going down this road, hope this has shed some insight!
Thanks
Bob
Bob, I enjoy hearing from real users. We've all heard why E-propulsion doesn't work but that's always from non-users or short users (maybe?), that didn't do their homework.

Like electric cars, those that use them successfully have few surprises as they fit (or fit themselves) inside the limits of the vehicle.

You are coastal sailing like many of us, but with an electric auxiliary, and you're doing it with hot water and refrigeration. :) Your Honda generator makes for a cobbled together Hybrid EV needed for a long legs.

Your electric install is ship-shape. The Sabre 28 is a typical NE coastal cruiser. With 2 large solar panels (I think you said you used), how do you set those up for use?

This is DRAGON, a Sabre 28 (or is it a 30?) moored in Perry Creek last season. DRAGON's tender used an e-trolling motor. I saw a big increase in e-powered dinghies last season.

DRAGON is out of Deer Isle (I noticed) so not far from home, as is typical of 90%+ of sailboats. She's out for a few days of sailing in the warm, re-charging, Maine sunshine.

DRAGON Sabre 28-30 far.jpg
 
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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
I am about to learn some of these elements for myself as I have just bought, but not yet cruised, an electric J/88. My thinking around the use of an auxiliary engine, which I will probably need, is a little different than what I keep reading on the topic. My last4 boats all had inboard diesels which I ran every time I left and returned to the dock. With the electric I believe I can always get on and off the dock plus cruising less than 20 nm so I will need to run the generator only when I get outside these parameters and there is no wind. In fact, I cannot think of more than 1 trip in the last 2 seasons where I would have had to run the generator.
Perfect, no but awfully close and I am betting that battery technologies will only get better plus there are many ways to generate electricity that may get small/efficient enough to replace the i.c.e. generator.
Dan
I'm a big of J-boats but not familiar with this one so read a bit. Nice! Fast, spare but everything you'd need for coastal sailing/cruising in a fun to sail boat.

Did it come with the e-propulsion? How do you intend to use the boat?
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Maybe they can use the waves as a source of power, sort of an agitator generator. You all remember self-winding watches, right?

Let's not forget another source of power ferries have to tap into

After all, it's all to make the world healthier, right?

-Will (Dragonfly)
We once took a high speed Cat from Maine to NS. I was impressed with the speed. Your photo reminds me, I went out on the back deck of the ferry. It was impressive to hear the roar and see the wake we were cutting but you couldn't stay out for long. The cat set up a back draft and a thick diesel exhaust cloud hung back there.

The glum faces in your photo also demonstrates, exercise is rarely enjoyed. :)

There are exceptions though: Beaming oarsmen.

Angelique dudes rowing.jpg
 
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Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
I'm a big of J-boats but not familiar with this one so read a bit. Nice! Fast, spare but everything you'd need for coastal sailing/cruising in a fun to sail boat.

Did it come with the e-propulsion? How do you intend to use the boat?
Tom, she is factory equipped with an Oceanvolt system giving 20 nm range at just under 5 knots of speed. She is light and slippery so the range may be better than some larger cruisers have experienced but we will see. Certainly winterization is much easier since you don't even need to remove the batteries!
I will predominately be using her for club racing and day sailing on Lake Ontario. This kind of use looks perfect for the application but time will tell. For cruising I plan to carry a Honda generator to reduce worry about the various circumstances that may arise.

Dan
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Tom, she is factory equipped with an Oceanvolt system giving 20 nm range at just under 5 knots of speed. She is light and slippery so the range may be better than some larger cruisers have experienced but we will see. Certainly winterization is much easier since you don't even need to remove the batteries!
I will predominately be using her for club racing and day sailing on Lake Ontario. This kind of use looks perfect for the application but time will tell. For cruising I plan to carry a Honda generator to reduce worry about the various circumstances that may arise.

Dan
Your best tool might just be your J88. If a sailboat is easy to get sailing, sails well in light air and is weatherly, your 20NM range grows.

On boats, I see solar panels; size and output, the bigger limit on range than battery storage. Smaller, more efficient panels that are coming down in cost may make it easier for more to rely on e-power.
 
Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
Your best tool might just be your J88. If a sailboat is easy to get sailing, sails well in light air and is weatherly, your 20NM range grows.

On boats, I see solar panels; size and output, the bigger limit on range than battery storage. Smaller, more efficient panels that are coming down in cost may make it easier for more to rely on e-power.
Tom, the representative from Oceanvolt said that in light breezes upwind where you might not normally bother sailing that a little electric power added can create enough apparent wind to make sailing feasible while using very little battery power. I will have to see this in person but I do understand the concept.
This boat originally came with sails that had solar panels in them but I understand they didn't last due to the wear factors inherent in luffing/flapping sails. Apparently someone is working on a solar fabric that would give larger area and might be a viable solution here in the northern hemisphere though more southerly areas would suffer with the angle of the sun being too vertical.
I am looking forward to the learning.

Dan
 
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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Tom, the representative from Oceanvolt said that in light breezes upwind where you might not normally bother sailing that a little electric power added can create enough apparent wind to make sailing feasible while using very little battery power. I will have to see this in person but I do understand the concept.
This boat originally came with sails that had solar panels in them but I understand they didn't last due to the wear factors inherent in luffing/flapping sails. Apparently someone is working on a solar fabric that would give larger area and might be a viable solution here in the northern hemisphere though more southerly areas would suffer with the angle of the sun being too vertical.
I am looking forward to the learning.

Dan
I get that. I tested a Torqueedo this season and one thing I hadn't expected was the throttle down capability. Docking up, the ability to turn the prop at minute RPM's made it easy to back or even side slip the dinghy. I could see you throttling down the prop (and amp draw) and combine with light wind to be sailing in extra light winds.

At any rate, when sailing in light winds you have to ride through the dead patches and lulls. This can be frustrating as you get sails slatting in a little wake or sea. With a diesel it often means turning on the engine, and calling it quits. A little silent boost by switch for a hundred yards and you might have the wind again on your sails.

This isn't about range, more about sailing in very light air which isn't many sailors cup of tea anyway. :)

I need solar collector varnish....
 

Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
Tom,

I put the panels on the stern rail using rail clamps. They can be adjusted vertically or horizontally. Plus they are very easy to take off & store in the quarter berth should the need arise. May not be "pretty" but it works.
I have sketched out a small pole system based upon what James Baldwin did with his boat Atom. This would allow the panels to be manually adjusted to follow the sun. Just haven't got around to fabricating it yet. Not sure I will, seems llike it would be a PIA to store them not to mention additional windage.

Your comment on light wind sailing is spot on. Hit the switch & 5 minutes later you're sailing again.

The boat Dragon, she's a 28, has end boom sheeting.
 

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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
Interesting article about shaded panels a d series vs parallel wiring of panels

 
Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
I don't think it is really feasible to recharge under way except with a generator. The motor is something like 5000W or bigger so your 100W solar setup not really going to cut it. If you use it to get in and out of the harbor, call it 20min 0.3hr at 4kw so 1.2kwh times two weekend days for 2.4kwh then recharge all week 24 hrs at 100W it can work.
 
May 25, 2012
4,333
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Tom,

I put the panels on the stern rail using rail clamps. They can be adjusted vertically or horizontally. Plus they are very easy to take off & store in the quarter berth should the need arise. May not be "pretty" but it works.
"Pretty", is subjective.

I don't how you use your boat, but let's assume you're the owner of an average coastal cruiser, of which there are thousands along our coast used seasonally.

Most rarely go 40 or so miles from home. Use is mostly weekends with perhaps a week or two vacation on spent on the water.

Imagine you're in the Penobscot Bay area for 2 weeks on PEBBLES, eating, sleeping 24/7 with one other person onboard.

You'll anchor out (or moor) every night (no shore power) and travel between destinations - daily, for an average of 4 hours per day, under sail or power depending on conditions (as is typical).

Throw in a couple of 8 hour days underway, which might be typical. Average a comfortable speed for your boat, let's say 4 to 5 knots.

Forgot to add, assume you're running refrigeration as most would, for two onboard.

Imagining this scenario: How you often - and how long - would you need the gas generator running?

Sabre 34 sailing I shot last season.

Sabre 34 saling thru thoroughfare.jpg
 
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Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
I don't think it is really feasible to recharge under way except with a generator. The motor is something like 5000W or bigger so your 100W solar setup not really going to cut it. If you use it to get in and out of the harbor, call it 20min 0.3hr at 4kw so 1.2kwh times two weekend days for 2.4kwh then recharge all week 24 hrs at 100W it can work.
John, in my model I am going to be tied to a dock with power every night so re-charging will not be an issue except on longer trips. Re the concern about re-charging under way, the Oceanvolt set-up can re-generate through the prop when making over about 4 knots sailing. How much power you can regen is not clear to me yet but it is certainly dependent on the speed of the boat. I won't be re-generating during races for sure!
On long runs with no winds I am pretty sure I will be able to run the generator(s) as needed to get where I am going.
All of my assumptions are based on what I have heard from proponents of electric power but I am going to learn and will report back. As noted above, having a slippery weatherly boat that weighs half or less of the average cruising boat may make my circumstance more possible than others.
Dan
 

Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
I don't think it is really feasible to recharge under way except with a generator. The motor is something like 5000W or bigger so your 100W solar setup not really going to cut it. If you use it to get in and out of the harbor, call it 20min 0.3hr at 4kw so 1.2kwh times two weekend days for 2.4kwh then recharge all week 24 hrs at 100W it can work.
"Pretty", is subjective.

I don't how you use your boat, but let's assume you're the owner of an average coastal cruiser, of which there are thousands along our coast used seasonally.

Most rarely go 40 or so miles from home. Use is mostly weekends with perhaps a week or two vacation on spent on the water.

Imagine you're in the Penobscot Bay area for 2 weeks on PEBBLES, eating, sleeping 24/7 with one other person onboard.

You'll anchor out (or moor) every night (no shore power) and travel between destinations - daily, for an average of 4 hours per day, under sail or power depending on conditions (as is typical).

Throw in a couple of 8 hour days underway, which might be typical. Average a comfortable speed for your boat, let's say 4 to 5 knots.

Imagining this scenario, how you often - and how long - would you need the gas generator running?

Sabre 34 sailing I shot last season.

View attachment 174564
I'm on a mooring or anchor 24/7. Only time she gets tied to a dock is when she comes out or goes in the water.
Once the boat's in the water I pretty much live on her in Penobscot Bay for 10-12 weeks. The solar system provides 99% of my energy needs. I'll use the generator at least once a month to power the on board charger to balance & equalize the batteries. Other than the 24NM trip from Belfast to Winterport the genny only comes out to run powertools or the microwave. Haven't gotten around to installing a large enough inverter to run the microwave yet...

For the record, I've never have made the whole trip up the river without dropping the hook & catching the next tide the following day to my destination. This is due to the type of onboard battery charger I have. It doesn't charge the battery bank in a string but rather each battery independently. I went this route so the batteries in the bank remain "balanced".
Charging the bank in a string is the only way to motor long distances but I don't feel like spending $500.00 at this point in time for a charger that would allow this.

The thing about electric, faster you go, faster the battery bank gets depleted. Most folks that go this route are content with "motoring" at 3.5-4 knots. IF you are on a schedule or feel the need to motor at 5-6 knots for a prolonged period of time, electric is not for you.

Pebbles is the first sailboat I've owned. I came into this with my eyes wide open knowing that I'd play the tides & wind direction. If the stars don't line up I wait or what is now my new favorite saying thanks to jssailem, "float time".
I'm retired now so I have the luxury to float time
 
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Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
@danstanford
You'll have a learning curve this season.
The claims from Oceanvolt & other e-power vendors regarding regen & distance are not always accurate so don't get discouraged. You'll figure out what works for you & adjust accordingly.

What type of batteries are in your new boat?
 
Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
@danstanford
You'll have a learning curve this season.
The claims from Oceanvolt & other e-power vendors regarding regen & distance are not always accurate so don't get discouraged. You'll figure out what works for you & adjust accordingly.

What type of batteries are in your new boat?
4 of U24-12XP for batteries
 

Bob J.

.
Apr 14, 2009
773
Sabre 28 NH
4 of U24-12XP for batteries
You have a LI battery bank, 118 AH. If you discharge to 20% SOC that's 94 amps. Long as you don't hammer down on the throttle, you'll get some decent range out of her. I'll assume there's a 48-12 DC converter on her for the house.
Congratulations on the new boat!
 
Aug 2, 2010
502
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
You have a LI battery bank, 118 AH. If you discharge to 20% SOC that's 94 amps. Long as you don't hammer down on the throttle, you'll get some decent range out of her. I'll assume there's a 48-12 DC converter on her for the house.
Congratulations on the new boat!
There is another 12v system for the house loads tied to a small solar panel to keep it up while sailing. It appears that the two systems are completely independent.
 
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