Patrick, I was glad to read your post. I was thinking of you and Heather as I was reading this thread. Kudos to you and the BOG for acting on this!
Drunks on a dock - not good.
- Thread starter plenny7
- Start date
Better get two, in case the creep has a partner. Or you could politely ask him to be a gentleman and kindly stand down while you reload.
It reminds me of my own fall in the water off the back end of a boat in the marina story. It was getting late in the evening. I had a customer in town that I was entertaining at the marina. Some friends were having a party on their big powerboat. I was not drinking since I was responsible for my guest. It was late fall and the water temp was fairly low and as it got dark we all found ourselves putting on heavier coats. My guest was quite inebriated at this point and was standing close to the end of the swim platform. I stepped past him after grabbing my first beer of the night since I assumed it would be my one and only before we both retired for the night on my boat. I was wearing a heavy coat and stepped off the swim platform holding the fresh beer in one hand. I meant to step on top of the dock wheel and then on to the pier. whoopppsss...off the end of the pier I went. I came up with the beer in hand and quickly deposited the bottle on the pier and then tried to drag myself up onto the finger pier. I was really struggling and it was becoming clear I needed help. I heard someone ask my guest if he was going to help me and he said "hell no I'm not getting pulled into the water. After several attempts I finally managed to help myself out of the water. Had I not been sober it would have had a sad ending for sure.
Not too far off. We now teach people to splash water at the person being rescued until they turn around. Even a panicking person will turn away from a couple waves of water.
I notice that all the guys practicing with that "bell" thing, are wearing helmets. I wonder what happens if the guy in the water gets clocked in the head with the bell?
I had an argument with a friend, many years ago. I got SCUBA certified in 1977. I was taught that if you have a second regulator and your buddy has problems with air and you need to buddy breath, don't offer the spare second stage, rather take the regulator out of your mouth and give that to him. You reach for your spare. The reason is that a panicked person out of oxygen will go for the straight line working oxygen supply they can see and not even notice you offering the spare. My friend got her cert several years later and said she was taught never give up your own supply, but only offer the spare. I have no idea what the thinking is today, but the lesson I was taught makes a great deal of sense. You don't want to end up fighting over a single regulator.
-Will (Dragonfly)
-Will (Dragonfly)
Me, 1971 for my first one. The procedure used to be (b/f the octopus came along) that the person out of air signaled with the "finger slit" across the throat to his/her buddy. The buddy with the air would take the regulator from his/her mouth, keeping a firm hold on it, and put it into the mouth of the other diver for a few breaths, take it back for a breath or two, then back to the buddy out of air, etc., always keeing a firm hold on it. Meanwhile, the divers ascended while buddy breathing. You saw this done in a couple of episodes of Sea Hunt back in the late '50s, early '60s. I had to do it for one of the few check-out dives I've had along the way when an instructor, me buddy, surprised me with the "out of air" signal, and I "gave her" my regulator, etc. The octopus, spare regulator, idea is not really a good one in my view for amateur sports divers b/c it could be much harder to "control" the situation if a panicked buddy independently has a piece of your apparatus (regardless of which regulator it is) and may not be doing what you want, which is to get to the surface quickly w/o suffering an embolism. Trained divers are not supposed to be "fighting" over a regulator. That'd be absurd. But, of course, these days--hardly anyone it seems fails any kind of certification course, irrespective of what they can actually demonstrate in terms of knowledge or experience by way of their "training."
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Sounds like you saved this guys life. And thats not a small thing. So, you did good. I work in Emergency services and we always ere on the side of life. Having said that, it is totally normal to replay the incident with all the "would have, could have, should haves" after the fact and even question why bother saving some people who obviously arent simply an innocent victim. But seem to be determined to tear themselves apart. Doesnt change the fact that it is a person and its somebodies brother ,dad, uncle, etc We have used Narcan on the same people repeatedly in the city where I live. What are you gonna do, just let a person who obviously needs help.....die?
Secondly as someone who is involved in EMS, one thing they teach us and remind us of when responding to incidents is: I didnt cause this, this persons predicament is not my fault, and becoming part of the problem when trying to rescue someone does not help ANYONE. You have to take care of YOU first.
No one needs to drown attempting to save someone else from drowning. If you drown\become injured, you just made a bad situation worse. From an EMS standpoint, thanks but no thanks. All you did is double our work. Besides this person may need you, but you have loved ones who need you even more.
Lastly, and thankfully I am not one who has ever been addicted to alcohol.......but what the heck?? If you can enjoy a little adult beverage, go for it. I even do myself occasionally. But I never get sloshed. And I certainly wouldnt do it where I would put myself at risk of accidental suicide like falling into a drowning situation.
Sorry, I didnt mean to ramble so long either. You started it.
Secondly as someone who is involved in EMS, one thing they teach us and remind us of when responding to incidents is: I didnt cause this, this persons predicament is not my fault, and becoming part of the problem when trying to rescue someone does not help ANYONE. You have to take care of YOU first.
No one needs to drown attempting to save someone else from drowning. If you drown\become injured, you just made a bad situation worse. From an EMS standpoint, thanks but no thanks. All you did is double our work. Besides this person may need you, but you have loved ones who need you even more.
Lastly, and thankfully I am not one who has ever been addicted to alcohol.......but what the heck?? If you can enjoy a little adult beverage, go for it. I even do myself occasionally. But I never get sloshed. And I certainly wouldnt do it where I would put myself at risk of accidental suicide like falling into a drowning situation.
Sorry, I didnt mean to ramble so long either. You started it.
That statement is upsettingly accurate. That would be the "we are all winners" and "we all get a trophy" at its worst!!!
P.S. Did I just invent a word? "upsettingly" doesnt pass my spell check.
I thought everybody has that! When I type on my computer, there is a little red squiggly line under words that arent really words. I dont know what dictionary it is checking them in, but if they arent real words my computer warns me that I am not making sense. Anyway, I usually proof read my post so I dont sound like an idiot. I thought that sounded like a word.... but my computer doesnt recognize it.
I'm just messin' with ya!
P.S.- yes, it is a word. Computers aren't all that schmart when it comes to language. Except binary.
Plenny7
This guy pissed you of two times and i understand your frustration. But you did not know what a life this guy and his daughter have lead. None of us has walked a mile in his shoes.
Be very proud for your actions. You are a hero.
This guy pissed you of two times and i understand your frustration. But you did not know what a life this guy and his daughter have lead. None of us has walked a mile in his shoes.
Be very proud for your actions. You are a hero.
This makes me want to take a good look around my boat. Most of us have a MOB plan for sailing, but maybe not at the dock. My marina has dock ladders at regular intervals, so that would help. Plenny, what you saw was "conscious non-responsive". It's the last stop before shear panic.
As far as an out-of-air situation with a diver is concerned, I always had an octopus, but learned/taught buddy breathing, too. And if you offer someone an octopus hold it up to their face so they see it. When cave diving, the consensus was "if you need air, take the regulator out of my mouth, I will get my own octopus".
As far as an out-of-air situation with a diver is concerned, I always had an octopus, but learned/taught buddy breathing, too. And if you offer someone an octopus hold it up to their face so they see it. When cave diving, the consensus was "if you need air, take the regulator out of my mouth, I will get my own octopus".
NotCook
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- Dec 29, 2008
- 805
Some of you may recall an incident on Lake Erie maybe 6-7 years ago. We were sailing back from the Lake Erie Islands to Lorain and heard an alert from the USCG about a boat which had been found adrift, with no one aboard. Sometime later we overheard a call between another boater and the USCG that the boater had encountered a person in the water, alive and conscious. They had him alongside their boat, but due to his size, they were unable to get him out of the water and into their boat.
They continued to try to get him in the boat as they waited for help, but he expired before helps arrived. Basically, found but not “rescued”.
That episode prompted us to review our MOB recovery plan. We hadn’t given sufficient consideration to the idea the an MOB would not be able to get aboard on their own. Our gunwales are over 4’ above the water - closer to 5’. We have ladder rungs built into the side of the sides, starting below the waterline. Still, someone large, very cold, and close to death due to exposure would not be able to save themselves. So, we devised and practiced swinging our main boom out over the side, with an attached bosun’s chair or lifesling on the preventer blocks, to winch out of the water and over the lifelines. It worked as expected, and we are confident that we can at least get someone aboard.
We had another situation when we were coming into the marina. Our “slip” was just the last 90’ of the dock, at the end past all the finger piers. As we approached our dock, dealing with a beam breeze that would try to blow us away from our slip, two “adult” men were horsing around on the dock and finger pier immediately ahead of our slip. Just as we approached, and were about to make our final adjustments to bring in the stern and hold the bow in, one of the men succeeds in throwing the other into the water, right in front of us. Now we can’t use our bow thruster to help us, if we needed it to hold the bow in against the wind, for fear of sucking this moron into the thruster!
One would hope that people around a marina would have more sense, but that would be naive.
They continued to try to get him in the boat as they waited for help, but he expired before helps arrived. Basically, found but not “rescued”.
That episode prompted us to review our MOB recovery plan. We hadn’t given sufficient consideration to the idea the an MOB would not be able to get aboard on their own. Our gunwales are over 4’ above the water - closer to 5’. We have ladder rungs built into the side of the sides, starting below the waterline. Still, someone large, very cold, and close to death due to exposure would not be able to save themselves. So, we devised and practiced swinging our main boom out over the side, with an attached bosun’s chair or lifesling on the preventer blocks, to winch out of the water and over the lifelines. It worked as expected, and we are confident that we can at least get someone aboard.
We had another situation when we were coming into the marina. Our “slip” was just the last 90’ of the dock, at the end past all the finger piers. As we approached our dock, dealing with a beam breeze that would try to blow us away from our slip, two “adult” men were horsing around on the dock and finger pier immediately ahead of our slip. Just as we approached, and were about to make our final adjustments to bring in the stern and hold the bow in, one of the men succeeds in throwing the other into the water, right in front of us. Now we can’t use our bow thruster to help us, if we needed it to hold the bow in against the wind, for fear of sucking this moron into the thruster!
One would hope that people around a marina would have more sense, but that would be naive.