Drunks on a dock - not good.

genec

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Dec 30, 2010
188
Pacific Seacraft Orion27 HP: San Diego, M: Anacortes
Agreed, being a lifeguard 30 years ago doesn't do me a lot of good now-I'm not 16 anymore.
What? You don't swim 3 miles a week and keep in shape... you know, just in case?

Indeed, I would not have jumped in the water either... a rope or pole would have been my first choice... actually reaching out to grab the guy was pretty gutsy considering.

But hey, regarding those old skills... I wonder just what you might recall... if it became a "you or them" about to drown situation. I renewed my CPR training about 8 years ago... no longer current... but I considered it a decent refresher.
 
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FDL S2

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Jun 29, 2014
470
S2 7.3 Fond du Lac
What? You don't swim 3 miles a week and keep in shape... you know, just in case?

Indeed, I would not have jumped in the water either... a rope or pole would have been my first choice... actually reaching out to grab the guy was pretty gutsy considering.

But hey, regarding those old skills... I wonder just what you might recall... if it became a "you or them" about to drown situation. I renewed my CPR training about 8 years ago... no longer current... but I considered it a decent refresher.
Lol, No! I run 9 miles and bike about 30 a week now, but I don't swim much anymore. I am however current on CPR and other advanced first aid (first responder at work).

As far as "you or them" I remember the instructor saying all bets are off if you can't get away from a person trying to push you down to keep themselves up including punching them in the face if you can't get free.
Also a lot of Red Cross and fire companies have free CPR and AED classes for the general public which is a good thing to have.
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
Great job @plenny7 , even if the man was a drunk he is still a human in need and you rescued him..... Bravo. Just went through a similar situation at the end of July in the early evening, sure gets the adrenaline flowing that is for sure. What surprised me all the ladders at the end of the dock finger were broken off there was really noway I could see to get out.
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,087
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I posted on another thread re getting back on a boat that it's a excellent idea to look at your marina and it's provisions to get out of the water. It's code here but if you look closely at many of the ladders they are woefully inadequate . Rotted steps and rotten support beams and unrealistic hardware. That goes for when you visit somewhere too. There's a place we visit, we call the third world marina (Which isn't fair to third world marinas), which its scary to walk on the docks much less try to climb out of the water on a ladder. These situations exist. It's just a good practice to check out the docks before breaking out the cocktails.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,149
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Good on you @plenny7. God reserves a special place in heaven for those who save another.

Glad you chose wisely not to go in the water after him.

No matter how big they are, or small, in the water they are dangerous.

AA will tell you that you can not help a person who does not first choose to help himself. Feel empathy for his daughter. She has probably experienced it all and is numb to the events.
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,529
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
I’d call 911. Isn’t this exactly why we have it? And they have a next step (detox) while I do not.

Our Vang has snap shackles on both ends to allow us to move it to the end of the boom. Our plan is to get the target into our Lifesling, then make the Lifesling line to the lower shackle of the Vang. We could lift 250 pounds this way, but I doubt we would have been able to get the Lifesling, or a line around someone that drunk!

Well done!

By the way, his daughter was doing the right thing. She is not responsible for her father. Her job is to keep herself and her family safe. I’ve been there with my alcoholic parents. It’s a blessing that they decided for treatment when my wife, siblings and I got them to an intervention. But if that had failed, their addiction would have killed them.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,752
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
911 or not. The most important thing you did is stay true to who you want to be. It doesn't matter if he could be saved, either in the water or in detox. You acted to your chosen nature and there is nothing else.

I took lifesaving as a teen and remember the lessons about not letting the victim drag you down. Punching him in the face came up, also.

There is a guy in our town who fell and passed out facedown in a puddle. He was drowning when one of our two local cops happened upon him. He saved the guy's life, took him to the hospital and charged him for something or other, public drunkenness, I think he was next to his car, so it might even have been drunk driving. In the end, the guy sued the cop that saved his life. I wish I could relay more of the details, but I never was curious enough to ask. I see the guy walking on the street in town all the time. I only know about it because I was at the courthouse while my wife acted as a witness in another case. She pointed him out as he conferred with his lawyer in the hall.

I decided when I was 13 while at a boat launching party, to never get drunk. I watched a 250 lb. 19 year old deckhand fall over a stack of pilings, laying by the seawall, and proceed to throw-up. Between heaves, he'd call out, "Will!"
"Yeah, Dougie."
"Don't leave me."
"I won't, Dougie."
Heave
"Will, you still there!"
"Yeah, Dougie, I'm still here."
Retch
"Don't leave me Will."
"I'm not going anywhere Doug."

That was it for me. When you find yourself an adult relying on a 13 year old boy to help you through your drunken sick, you are doing the wrong things.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Sep 14, 2014
1,254
Catalina 22 Pensacola, Florida
Brings up a general point about most marinas, no way to climb out of the water if you fall in. Might be an item to bring up and mention liability insurance in the conversation. Reason for liability insurance on boats per my agent is lots of people have been sued by drunk and other persons wandering aboard your boat and hurting themselves on or falling back off the boat. Semper paratus.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,149
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
drunk and other persons wandering aboard your boat and hurting themselves on or falling back off the boat.
You mean you are not supposed to watch as the sharks circle in the Marina?
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,405
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Good job. :thumbup:Your moral compass is pointed in the right direction. I would have called 911. Alcohol poisoning is a risk too. The guy needs professional help when even his daughter doesn't care. He could have been behind the wheel of a car.
 
Jun 14, 2010
307
Seafarer 29 Oologah, OK
If you are ever in the situation of having some panicked person cling to you in the water... Dive down, as deep as you can. They do not want to go under, and will attempt to climb you like a ladder... so you have to take away that "ladder."

This was taught to me many decades ago when I certified as a lifeguard. I suspect it is no longer taught... not politically correct... but it may be the only way for YOU to survive. (we were also taught "breaking" techniques, used to pry people off of you... better than two drowning)
RoadKing Larry might remember too - we had a drowning here at Lake Oologah this summer, off the Corps of Engineers swimming beach near our marina. One man drowning, another went out to try to help him, and the would-be rescuer ended up being the one who died. IIRC he (the one who died) was only 19.
The CoE said they were stepping up lake patrols and enforcement (no alcoholic beverages are allowed at CoE facilities) after several drownings on area lakes, and I suppose they did, but I haven't ever seen them.
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
It's code here but if you look closely at many of the ladders they are woefully inadequate . Rotted steps and rotten support beams and unrealistic hardware. That goes for when you visit somewhere too.
The following morning of our incident I looked up the harbor master, she seemed completely disinterested in the fact that there was a man who fell off his boat, amazingly did not get hurt after falling from the fore deck of a large power boat (at least 6.5') between the dock and the boat and then could not get out of the water without assistance. Her response, "Yah the ladders all got broken off by the ice", really!! Why not fix them or provide at least some other means of getting out of the water between the dock fingers, seems like a liability thing to me, she shrugged her shoulders and walked away.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,394
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
... He could have been behind the wheel of a car.
Oooh.... good point. My mind did not go there but now that it has I think you have distilled the issue down to the fundamental point.
 
Oct 10, 2011
619
Tartan 34C Toms River, New Jersey
I have known quite a few drinkers (drunks) in my day. It is my experience that detox and rehab are worthless unless the individual wants to get clean/sober.
I have two personal friends that were bad drunks, both of which learned their trade while we were in the military together. Both were as bad if not worst then the individual described in the original post. One of which is now clean/sober and can sit with me at a bar and have club soda while I have a cocktail, with no affect/triggers. While the other friend is not doing well. The point is both went to the same rehab at the same time, as they made a pact to get clean/sober and get their life's back on track.
In response to the OP you did what you thought was right, and I believe you did.
 

tjar

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Aug 8, 2011
166
Hunter Legend 35.5 Tacoma, WA
Being a sailing forum, this thread makes my start to think about how I would get an injured or unresponsive person back onto my boat. Granted that you were on another person's boat, but how prepared are we for such an emergency? My marina has emergency escape ladders at the end of each fairway, but this person could not have swam over to it, yet alone climb the flimsy steps. I have a block and tackle system for my LifeSling, but I've never tried to rig it or haul anybody aboard. A boat hook could be used to hook a person and pull them back to the surface, but is it in reach? I've never tried to deploy my swim ladder from the water. It looks like it could be done, but how about while shivering and with numb hands? All good food for thought and preparation.
 
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pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
If you are ever in the situation of having some panicked person cling to you in the water... Dive down, as deep as you can. They do not want to go under, and will attempt to climb you like a ladder... so you have to take away that "ladder."

This was taught to me many decades ago when I certified as a lifeguard. I suspect it is no longer taught... not politically correct... but it may be the only way for YOU to survive. (we were also taught "breaking" techniques, used to pry people off of you... better than two drowning)
I am a certified rescue diver. Dealing with panicked, or drunk, situations are the most dangerous, as they can actually kill you while you are trying to perform a rescue. You have to maintain your own safety first. We had to learn approaches and holds to prevent a flailing swimmer/diver from sabotaging their own rescue. I have been very lucky to not have to use theses skills.
 
Oct 3, 2014
261
Marlow-Hunter MH37 Lake City, MN
Thanks for the responses. The unanimous agreement that one should not go in to save someone, particularly a drunk panicked guy, makes me feel better about my conclusion.

A clarification...At no point did I consider jumping in during the event. I didn't hesitate to grab his hand or arm, but I was not thinking about jumping in. This only came up when I was rehashing it in my mind and and thinking about what I would have done had he let go and went under. I'll jump in for my family, knowingly risking my own life, but not for strangers. If I were to give up my life to save my wife or my child, I'm at peace with that. I'm not at peace doing that for a stranger, mainly for what that would do to my family.

I say I wouldn't have any drunks guests on or near my boat but it occurs to me that a person could easily slip getting on or off the boat, hit their head and be out cold or severely dazed. I shouldn't limit my thinking and planning to just drunks.

Our slip is just the 6th one from shore. If you can't get back on the dock or a boat it's just an easy 50 foot swim or dog-paddle to shore, so I hadn't been to concerned about a means for getting out of the water. I'll have to rethink that.

Discussion about Lifeslings and ladders is good when talking about able-bodied folks, but there was NO way we were going to get any sling around him. I have one in my boat next to my ladder, but never even considered using it. It just wouldn't work. Perhaps had I put on my own life jacket (THAT would have been a good idea, even if not planning on going in) perhaps I could have gotten the sling around him, but I would be doing that, and setting up any rigging by myself.

The only way a ladder would have worked would be if it were a fixed rung type (not a fabric emergency ladder) that went low enough for a person to easily step on, and it would have HAD to be right there on the finger dock. Had an emergency ladder been even one finger dock over, it would have been worthless to this man. Boat sticks? Yeah, we had one out, but what could would that do? He grabs on to it, and then what? He already had a grip on the dock, and then the ladder. Grabbing a boat hook would not have given us any advantage, nor would we be able to pull him out with one.

I tell Kim to call 911, but the drunk says, "NO! don't call, I don't want to go to detox again!".

Absoloutely classic. LMAF
I really think that was the motivation he needed to actually make it up the ladder. When I heard him say that, I used it. Get your ass up here or else! Until then there seemed be resignation in his eyes like he really wasn't trying very hard to get up.

Another thing I realized in my post mortem is that we stow all our flotation devices and life jackets when we get back to the slip, other than the Lifesling which stays on the rail. It would be a good idea to always have something out and easily available from the time we get there, until the time we go home. In addition to calling 911 when I realized he was drunk, I should have put on a life jacket myself, in case I got pulled in or fell in during the rescue.