Do you put anything heavy in your bilges

tim_klynn · May 20, 2013

I've got a series II which is solid forward of the bilge and the bilge goes to the bottom of the keel. The fuel tank is in the bilge.
I think the series I have a smaller, enclosed hollow section somewhere near the back of the keel, a more shallow bilge and a fuel tank in a cockpit locker?
When I rework the damaged fiberglass area, I'm probably also going to check the rudder shoe area as well. Tim

________________________________
From: Mark Kendal mark.kendal@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

HI James,
Your experience sounds very interesting and relevant to my own. First of
all I wish you well for your relaunch, I hope it goes well and your boat
stays dry. I've copied your comments to the people who are working on my
boat in case it sparks some ideas.

On a more general point I'm starting to wonder if my understanding of the
Vega construction is correct. I have assumed up to now that the forward
part of the keel is solid with the back part being hollow and which I've
been calling the bilges. Have I got that wrong? Is there another hollow
part beneath the hollow part that I can see? Are there hollow parts in the
forward "solid" part of the keel?

Mark

reefmagnet · May 20, 2013

Yes the series one has a void in the rear of the keel that extends all the
way to the bottom. Of you look at the keel from the port side of the boat,
the location of the drain plug shows the point just above where the bilge
ends and the void begins. If you tap the keel with the handle of a
screwdriver you will hear the change in sound as it goes from solid (at the
front) to hollow at the rear.

stevebirch2002 · May 21, 2013

Hi Mark

Late Series II

SteveFrom: Mark Kendal
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:26 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"
My boat number is 2822 so I assume that it is a Series 2. I guess I can look that up somewhere on the forum.

Mark.

lewills30 · May 23, 2013

Hi There,
What is a Series 1 or 2? My boat is V2761...LOL. And I have the drain plug at the hollow part of the keel. I did the taping on keel trick too. I was going to pull the drain plug, but with my luck the whole unit would start turning and I would be sucking water into the keel.
Larry

________________________________
From: Mark Kendal mark.kendal@...
To: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

My boat number is 2822 so I assume that it is a Series 2. I guess I can look that up somewhere on the forum.

Mark.

lewills30 · May 24, 2013

Mark,
It is raining cats and dogs here, so I think..."I should pull the drain plug and let the rain water out of the keel." Well the plug was power, so I pulled the housing out of the boat and the seal was aged so bad that the only thing that could of slowed water from getting into the boat was the bottom paint. You might want to replace the drain plug assembly while you have it out of the water, maybe water is coming in there as well? Just a thought.
Larry

________________________________
From: Tim tim_klynn@...
To: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

I had some damage on the front leading edge of my keel that was repaired with what looked like non waterproof auto body filler. I had some leakage into my bilge around the corner of the front vertical surface of the bilge and the horizontal platform of the battery compartment.
It didn't leak anywhere near 6" of water a day though, it was more of a weeping leak.
I not sure how the water got to that spot. I was able to seal it with epoxy on the inside and am now going to redo the damaged area and epoxy coat the exterior of the hull below the waterline, just for good measure. Tim

lewills30 · May 26, 2013

Mark,
As the guys were lifting my boat onto my trailer, I watched how this was all done. I thought that putting the straps on the stern and bow had to put a lot of pressure on the hull. So as I am removing the bottom coating guess what I found on the stern...a crack right where the strap was put. In the water it would be a leak, I could not see the crak until I removed the bottom coating. I will repair once I have the boat back to the existing gel-coat. I will reinforce this area inside the stern and I think that will be the end of that little issue.
Larry

________________________________
From: Mark Kendal mark.kendal@...
To: "AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com" AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

Hi Larry.
Thanks for that. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the issue but its always worth checking these things.

Actually I can't check now as Buffa was put back in the water yesterday. So tomorrow I hope to take her out for the first time since September. I might just motor her tomorrow as I won't have time to tension the rig, put the sails on and the one or two other bits needed and still catch the tidal window at the marina where I keep her. I can then get the sails on later in the day and hopefully sail on Sunday.

So I might be happy by the end of the weekend, I do hope so. Even if everything goes well I think we will have to plan some more work for later in the year when she comes back out for the winter.

Mark.

tim_klynn · May 27, 2013

The one time I lifted mine with a travel lift, I figured that it was unreasonable for the boatyard guys to know where to lift every boat, especially a not so common one as a Vega, so I took responsibility to find out how to do it so I could instruct them where to put the straps. I had them put one forward of the keel where you show in the photos, and put the other strap forward of the rudder under the keel. After I got this all figured out and the lift went well and the boat was on the trailer, I noticed 4 small engraved plaques that said "lift here". The previous owner had already figured it out and put the plaques on the toe rail at the lift points. If I was a little more observant, I could have saved myself some time.

I would be surprised if, other than putting straps on the rudder, prop, knotmeter wheel etc, lifting the boat with straps could do much damage. If the 2 straps are 6" wide and support the 8 foot beam, that's about 8 sq ft of surface area carrying a 6000 lb or less load. That's something like 750 lbs sq ft or 5.2 psi. That's not really a lot of load.
Check out this link for what old fiberglass boats can take: http://www.ericgreeneassociates.com/images/Boat_Longevity.pdf

Sometimes things just need repair, for whatever reason. It is too bad many Americans try to make "someone else" be responsible for everything or try to make insurance pay for it, rather than take some personal responsibility. This excessive blame shifting just makes everything cost more in the good ol' USA through higher insurance rates that business pass on to their customers. It also makes everyone scared of lawsuits and paranoid, so people are wary of helping out strangers, just in case the stranger decides to sue them for something stupid. My girlfriend works in a law office and I get to hear of many ridiculous cases that get settlements.

My other boat is a Santana 20 that I've fixed up to be one of the nicer boats in the fleet. One of the reason I chose to race in that class is that the other skippers are friendly, easy going, but highly competitive. They race pretty hard in tight quarters. In the big shifty gusts we get here boats occasionally round up or broach and there are collisions. I probably get hit pretty hard at least once or twice a year with several other good bumps here and there. In every instance the other boat offers to pay for damages, but keeping with the S20 class culture, I decline and just consider damage repair part of the cost of racing and by not going there, it keeps racing more even and competitive. I've gotten pretty good at gel coat matching.

On the other hand, the J24 fleet is well known around here for having a few pristine boats that are raced aggressively by wealthy owners that are known for putting their boats in possible jeopardy and then charging excessively for a minor scratch. Less wealthy skippers are then intimidated by the aggressive sailing of the pristine boats. Perhaps as a result, the J24 fleet is dying out while the Santana 20 fleet is growing and attracting a lot of new racers. Tim

________________________________
From: Marcin Palacz palacz@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

dougpol1 · May 29, 2013

Mark, I w2ould get a prod fesional to look at your leak. I would be
willing to bet my last dollar that water is not leaking through the hull
of your boat. If it is, it will be salty. To find out and this is nast
but a sure way to tell ,taste it stick your tongue in it and take it in
your mouth, spit it out and rinse your mouth with fresh water. If it is
salty it may be coming through the hull (very unlikely)
If it's fresh it is likely rain water that is running down under
some thing inside the hull. Maybe around a deck fitting, chain plate or
through the hull deck joint. I have owned boats a lot of years and
fiber glass ones for at least 30 years. I have never had one leak
through the glass and I have never known anyone else who has either. Be
sure before you start patching a leak. Albin did a quality job of
building those hulls and it's hard to believe if the cheap boats don't
leak a good one like the Vega's hull will. Think more about this and
get a professional opinion if you are not experienced. I would not
start scraping Gel coat off my boat on the advice of any of us here on
this list. There is a lot of know how and good advice here, but
remember none of us have seen the leak. Doug
M, Mark Kendal wrote:

tim_klynn · May 29, 2013

I think he plans on removing the bottom paint to the gelcoat, and then stop, leaving the gelcoat.
On my boat, once it dried out thoroughly, I was able to use a carbide edged paint scraper with the end points rounded (to prevent gouging) to scraped off most off the bottom paint without too much trouble. I probably got the idea off Peter's sintacha.com website. Peter seems to like to scrape bottoms almost as much as he likes to sail. Tim

tim_klynn · Jun 3, 2013

How long it takes to scrape off the bottom paint depends on how intensely you work on it and how old you are.
I've been working at it for going on 2 years now, as you might guess, I haven't been working very intensely on it.
I would guess if I went hard at it, I could get it done in 2-3 days. In my 20's maybe I could have gotten it done in 1-2 days.
I would guess that it also depends on how tightly adhered your paint is. I had a rather thick layer, and after a year of drying out, it comes
off quite easily. Tim________________________________
From: Mark Kendal mark.kendal@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

Hi Guys,
Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, Tim is correct, I was only thinking of
removing all the paint so that we can see what's beneath.

Thanks for the tip of rounding the edges of the scraper Tim. It sounds
like a good plan. How many days am I likely to be scraping?

By the way Douglas, I completely take your point about leaks through the
hull but I really think we do have a crack or cracks. before the various
reparis were made inside the keel we had a leak. After four days in the
water we were still dry. I'll look again on Saturday when she will have
been in 9 days. However, if I can find the issue on the outside of the
hull I'd like to fix it.

Mark

pelagicasd · Jun 4, 2013

You might look into a system called peelaway. We used it on Lyric with great success.you paint on a paint remover and cover it with paper, let it set and them peel it off. Defender Marine carries it.
WaltTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: tim_klynn@...
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 05:10:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

How long it takes to scrape off the bottom paint depends on how intensely you work on it and how old you are.

I've been working at it for going on 2 years now, as you might guess, I haven't been working very intensely on it.

I would guess if I went hard at it, I could get it done in 2-3 days. In my 20's maybe I could have gotten it done in 1-2 days.

I would guess that it also depends on how tightly adhered your paint is. I had a rather thick layer, and after a year of drying out, it comes

off quite easily. Tim
________________________________

From: Mark Kendal mark.kendal@...

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:14 PM

Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Leak - The trials of "Buffa"

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, Tim is correct, I was only thinking of

removing all the paint so that we can see what's beneath.
Thanks for the tip of rounding the edges of the scraper Tim. It sounds

like a good plan. How many days am I likely to be scraping?
By the way Douglas, I completely take your point about leaks through the

hull but I really think we do have a crack or cracks. before the various

reparis were made inside the keel we had a leak. After four days in the

water we were still dry. I'll look again on Saturday when she will have

been in 9 days. However, if I can find the issue on the outside of the

hull I'd like to fix it.
Mark

Do you put anything heavy in your bilges

mrkk1103

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tim_klynn

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reefmagnet

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mrkk1103

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stevebirch2002

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mrkk1103

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lewills30

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lewills30

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mrkk1103

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lewills30

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tim_klynn

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mrkk1103

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dougpol1

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tim_klynn

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mrkk1103

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tim_klynn

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pelagicasd

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mrkk1103

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