Do you put anything heavy in your bilges

[txsailcouple]

ok.... Might I 'ASSUME' all your seacocks are closed? If you close them all, the two suspects left would be a damaged drain plug (mine has been glassed over for just that reason) or the prop shaft packing/grease fitting tube is dripping heavily. Someone else here mentioned he had to grease the fitting after each time he ran the engine.
If it's not one of these you need to pull the boat and fill the bilge with water and dye to see where the leak comes out. Good luck!

John

 

[pjacobs55]

Mark, the aft end of the keel is hollow. With all that lifting, moving, etc. it might be that the bottom of the heel of the keel has sustained a crack from being lifted or blocked incorrectly.

Another spot to check is where the propeller shaft tube comes through to the inside the hull.

What an elusive problem ... you're going to find it, and when you do I hope you share the cause with us.

Good luck!
Peter
www.sintacha.com

 

[mrkk1103]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for those ideas, we'll have a look in those places. Yes the problem
does appear to be in the hollow part of the keel. I'll know more when I've
had a closer look, later this week.

Yes I'll make sure I share all that I learn. I've found the support from
the Albin Vega fraternity fantastic. I'm not a very practical man myself
but since owning the boat (I've now had her just under two years) have
become more so. However, the level of knowledge of many Vega owners seems
very high indeed.

Thanks again for those thoughts.

All the best,

Mark

 

[vegatern]

Peter's comment reminded me of an old post about being careful not to place a block under the hollow part of the keel when on the hard. It would be easy to happen since yard workers would not know about this.
Craig TernV1519

 

[mrkk1103]

Hi Everybody,
The saga of the leak continues! Buffa has been out of the water for a few weeks now and the people who are going to fix it for me have had another chance to have a look at her and now have a plan of action.

It seems that the weeping is through the port side of the keel right at the aft end. So they plan to put fibreglass inside the keel across a large part of the aft section. This way they won't be fighting with the rudder at all. They will also scrape away some of the antifoul on the outside to see if they can learn anything and do anything on the outside.

One good piece of news is that I've heard from an independent source that the guy who will do the glass fibre work (I think they call his job the laminator) has an excellent reputation locally.

Presumably I'll get a bill next week, that won't be so much fun! I did contact the insurers but I don't think they're going to help 'cos they'll blame something about the road move. Unfortunately that involved three different companies - one lifting her out of the water onto the truck, another for the trucking and a third lifting her off the truck onto a boat cradle and in due course into the water.

It seems that the repair will be done in a number of stages as they want to build up quite a lot of stuff and you should only do a little at a time due to heating. Hopefully all this will do is make my keel stronger and heavier which presumably is a good thing.

So that's my story - you never know, I may have a boat in the water in a week or two!

All the best,

Mark

 

[theoldsieve]

Hi all,
I have been the owner now of a Vega for a year here in Sweden. When she came out of the water the bilge had a crack in her just above the empty part of the keel. We had no idea that there was an empty part of the keel and thus no idea it was full of water. After emptying her in the spring (winter freezing) we resumed to repair the crack. We then put her in the water last Sunday and she immediately started leaking again into the bilge. We now need to take her out and have someone find out how the empty part of the keel is filling up.
Is the empty part of the keel supposed to fill with water automatically or does this mean there is a whole in the actual keel?
Look forward to any help...
Thx
James

 

[groundhogyh]

I think several things normally will drain to the bilge. Mine is always with some water in it.

I think a good idea may be to fill the bilge with water and put some colored dye in it and watch where it comes out?

groundhog

 

[mrkk1103]

Hi James
Sadly for you and me - no it's not supposed to fill, mind didn't last
year! My boat has now been repaired but the moment of truth when she is
returned to the water hasn't happened yet. The original plan was to put
her in the water yesterday but apparently it was too windy for safe use of
the crane. So, next week she will be lowered into the water. This time
Buffa will be lowered into the water but left in the slings for a couple of
hours to see if the repair has worked as we're pretty confident that what
has been done has been done well but we're not absolutely sure that we had
identified the cause.

James, how long is your keel taking to fill and how full has the keel got?
Do you have a bilge pump and can it keep the water level down?

Mark

 

[reefmagnet]

My boat lived in Sweden up to about 2007 and my hollow keel section has had
a drain plug installed at the very bottom of the keel, along with pipe work
and a cap in the bilge connected to this hollow area which I can only
assume is for the purpose of inspecting and draining the keel in the event
of it taking on water. Though I guess it may have been installed to allow
filling the void with water for additional ballast Macgregor 26 style.

Having said that, you may need to determine if the water is entering the
bilge through the keel or vice versa. I'd think in normal situations the
bilge should be watertight from the void. Easiest way to check for leaks is
to fill the void with water and look for it leaking once the boat is on the
hard and dry.

 

[theoldsieve]

Thanks for the advice.
We took her out of the water again as she was leaking more and more and realized someone had drilled a hole in the keel. Thus water was filling the empty section and water was coming through a crack that was badly mended in the bilge. I am now noticing that the bushing fiber on the combi is poking out from the back. Maybe that should be replaced?
BR
James

 

[mrkk1103]

Hi folks,
Me again with more of an update. You will probably remember that Buffa went back into the water on the Thursday before Easter. Within a couple of days it became apparent that she was leaking with an ingress of about 6" or so a day. The folks who are working on Buffa for me watched what was happening for a few days and concluded that there was a leak right at the stern port side of keel. So, Buffa was brought out of the water.

Last week they put some fibreglass on the inside of the keel in that area. Buffa was then put back in the water and left overnight. When she was inspected the next day two further but much smaller leaks were identified. Buffa was therefore taken out of the water again and these two leaks sealed on the inside.

As Buffa stood in her boat cradle it became apparent that more water was appearing in the bilges. It would seem (to me at least) that Buffa's keel has become slightly porous. Is this possible? Have you come across it before? Have you any ideas about what's happening and what the causes might be? Is this the sign of something really, really serious? Could she be repaired by covering the outside of the keel with something like another gel coat? Does that question even make sense? Could that work be done over the winter when she is next laid up?

The people doing the work have put more fibreglass along the bottom of the bilges (on the inside). The guy doing the work is also mystified and consulting colleagues for ideas as well. He is a good guy and the laminator has a very good reputation locally so they do know what they're doing.

Sorry for the naivety of my questions but this is all new to me. It is starting to get expensive though as I have to fund both the work and all this lifting in and out of the water. Any words of wisdom and advice welcome, even if it's not something I want to hear.

Yours in hope of enlightenment.

Mark

 

[marcin_palacz]

Hi Mark,

I am not an expert,
but trying to fix a leak by laminating _inside_ of the boat,
looks very strange to me. I don't understand why anybody is then
surprised by the symptoms which you describe:
- seemingly less water at first,
- water coming out from some unknown place(s)
and accumulating in the bilge later.

I think you do have to find and mend the hole on the outside.
I would start removing all the paint from the kill
and bottom of the boat,
down to the white gel coat, to see how it looks like,
if there were any earlier reparations, holes ....

Marcin
V1958 Lotta

 

[mrkk1103]

Hi Marcin,
Thank you, yes you make perfect sense. I assume that the original hole
discovered was so close to the rudder that there would have been problems
repairing it there. I'm wondering if we might just go with the current set
of repairs, use the boat for the season and then take more serious and time
consuming action (along the lines that you suggest) at the end of the
season. This will be my first season with the boat on the sea (rivers and
lakes up to now with a 5 hour road journey bringing her from her old home
to her new one plus a number of crane lifts off trucks, onto boat cradle
and then from cradle to water).

All comments really appreciated.

Mark

 

[dougpol1]

I suspect there is no hole in the glass. I can't imagine water is coming
through a glass hull unless there are blisters as big as tennis balls.
That considering the quality of the Vega hull that seems extremely
remote. I think you have a leak around one of the fittings for the head
or from a through hull for a depth sounder. The intake for the engine is
to low and you would see that right away. Any leak would have to be
between the top of the keel and the water line. That is a fairly narrow
area to search above that won't leak and below that will leak directly
into the keel and would not be visable above that. Leaks always occur in
one place and the water runs under something and shows up some place
else. I would close the sea cocks and it water is still leaking in I
would suspect it is leaking around a through hull. Hose connections can
easily be the culprit. Is water leaking out of your water tank in the
bow. In any case trying to patch the hull from the inside as has been
mentioned before. is not a good solution. I had a boat had a bronze
grounding plate and the bolts were leaking water in. Check them. A zinc
bolted onto the hull can leak around the bolts. I would suspect every
thing other than a leak through the hull first and lastly suspect a leak
in the hull. After I am sure there is leak through the glass I would
then go check everything else again. I have never seen a boat leak
through the glass hull, Still anything is possible.
Doug

 

[vegaboat]

could the stern tube be leaking where it is glassed into the hull?
Ric
#935

 

[tiempo2010]

I agree with the others that the only way to seal a leak is from the
outside - I would find another yard or fiberglass guy and repair it
properly. Gel coat is porous - that is why hulls are barrier coated with
epoxy. Epoxy is the best way to laminate to an older fiberglass hull.

 

[tim_klynn]

I had some damage on the front leading edge of my keel that was repaired with what looked like non waterproof auto body filler. I had some leakage into my bilge around the corner of the front vertical surface of the bilge and the horizontal platform of the battery compartment.
It didn't leak anywhere near 6" of water a day though, it was more of a weeping leak.
I not sure how the water got to that spot. I was able to seal it with epoxy on the inside and am now going to redo the damaged area and epoxy coat the exterior of the hull below the waterline, just for good measure. Tim

 

[rolyatad]

A barrier coat won't fix your leak and I doubt that re-gel coating it would
fix it permanently either, unless it is pinhole sized, and if it were that
small, it would crust up and quit leaking soon enough...Even if you were to
have a hairline crack that opens slightly in the water, but closes under
compression from the slings, it would not be repaired with those methods,
as any flexing would re-open the unreinforced coating. Lack of a barrier
(or gel coat for that matter) won't leak a cup a day.

 

[theoldsieve]

Hi Mark,

I have been having similar problem on my boat. We bought her last spring
and during the sailing season we noticed a crack all along the bilge. Turns
out the empty part of the keel under the bilge was full with water.

When out of the water this winter, I had a guy drill into the keel from the
outside to empty it. I then had another guy laminate the inside of the
bilge and the whole on the outside that we had made.

Two week ago we put her in the water and she started leaking again. Turns
out water was coming in from the keel (again) through a small crack that
the guy hadn't laminated (more or less directly under the engine).

So I took her out of the water (again) and we notices the guy had done two
whole not one. So my guy came back and has now plugged the second whole and
relaminated the bilge.

She will be put back in tomorrow and fingers crossed, stay dry this time.

I agree with you, it's a costly business.

However, I think the main reason is that the previous owner didn't realise
the empty part of the keel was full with water and during the winter must
have frozen and created the crack.

Who knows?
--
James Heyman
Wine and Spirit Merchant
Le Village France
tel Sw: +46 (0)7 20 66 56 59

 

[mrkk1103]

Once again, thank you for all your thoughts and suggestions.

I get the point about repairing from the outside and accept that I need to do this, however, I suspect that if I go down that route I'll not get to use my boat this summer so for the time being I'll go with the flow (no pun intended).

It is possible that I had the two small leaks already. I'm a relatively new owner (OK two years) and this is my first boat of this size (previously had a 12" sailing dinghy) so I think I've missed a lot of stuff that's been happening and if I'm honest I didn't check down in the bilges very often. We didn't hear the automatic pump running (I did check it from time to time) so didn't worry. That won't be the case in the future! I know that it wasn't leaking to the tune of 6" a day last year and it was this year so I do suspect some effect of either the various crane lifts, of the 5 hours on the back of a truck or maybe even some frost damage.

Interestingly one of the small leaks was onto the platform at the front of the hollow section of the keel as Tim had. As I said these leaks are small. Apparently over the course of a night in the water the water on that platform didn't cover it and wasn't going over the edge into the deeper part of the keel.

I'm certainly getting the picture that this shouldn't be happening and to recheck through hulls. We've done that and I will be doing that again.

Thanks,

Mark