Do you put anything heavy in your bilges

albinvega3283 · Apr 2, 2013

Alisdair

I am a dyslectic English immigrant to Scotland so you get what you import.

I prefer Singleton to Islay.

But there are many to chose form List of whisky distilleries in Scotland - Wikipedia

Japanese whiskeys are now considered to be the best in the world!

By the way it is not the whiskey that is heavy but the glass bottle it is in. I have never seen whiskey in cans!

David

From: yahoo@...
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 9:33 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Do you put anything heavy in your bilges

Whisky (don't you folks know how to spell?) is less dense than water, so won't do much good in the bilge .. that said, I've tried a few whiskeys that are like bilge water.

The Scots know what's good for them, and where to get it: Laphroaig

Slightly more on topic, on my MkI Vega the bilge isn't much below the water line so I can't imagine adding a lot of weight near the centre of balance will make much difference .. I used to have a 120AH battery there, but had to move it above the waterline to be allowed in the local canal; I don't notice any difference sailing, but I've found a cool place to keep my beer

Alisdair

gurkin42 · Apr 2, 2013

I am a dyslectic scott immigrated to Canada I will drink any kind of whiskey. I wrote on this a while ago on my blog thought I would share.

The suggestion of changing from iron to lead ballast on an Albin Vega 27
If we went to the trouble of changing the existing ballast to lead on an Albin Vega 27. The centre of gravity (CG) of the total ballast could be lowered about 9 cm (3 1/2&quot

. This could be useful for those seeking head room or storage. The centre of gravity of the whole boat in cruising trim 2800 kg or 6175 lbs is lowered about 25 mm (1&quot

.

Is that significant? Well it would be a lot of work. I changed the ballast on my previous sailboat a Halman 20 from steel punchings to lead and although it made the boat stiffer her performance suffered slightly. What does this mean in terms of increased stability when sailing. In the drawing taken from the original owners manual at the amidships section of VEGA is shown the specs for a heeled angle of 20°̊. The length of the righting arm is 32cm (121/2&quot

and the righting moment is consequently 896 kg (6500 ft. lbs). With the new lower centre of gravity (lead) The righting arm would be increased by 9 mm 3/8" that is it. Heeling at 30°̊ the increase would be 12,5 mm (1/2&quot

and the righting moment to 921 kg This is an increase of 25 kg (180 ft. lbs) or 2.
Important to note the manual states that the same increase in righting moment can be achieved by increasing the weight of the boat by 75 kg (165 lbs) or by moving one person weighing 80 kg (176 lbs) a distance of 31cm (1 ft.) to windward. Allowing a light boat for the bay sailor interested in winning races and providing reserve ballast to be used by the long-distance cruiser or family sailor.
What I get from this is that the current design is an optimal one. If you are the dude who likes to race around the bay the Vega is a light displacement sailboat and perfect. For a cruiser ( for example) diesel fuel weighs approximately 7.2 pounds per gallon. giving you room for an extra 23 Gallons which consequently increases your engines range by about a full day of motoring. ( you could have a little more rum). Food comes in at 5 to 6lbs per person per day. Suffice it to say, this is a beneficial thing

SVFlyAway · Apr 2, 2013

The rationale for not having all lead ballast is discussed by the original
designer in the Vega Owner's manual.

From my experience having worked in a rigging shop, having a boat too stiff
can be harmful. It adds considerable stress to the rig (and hull) since the
boat doesn't give as much. The Vega was designed to have both the batteries
and fuel tank in the bilge. Two group 24 batteries weight about 150 pounds
give or take. The six gallons of fuel weighs about 36 pounds or so. Since
many people have moved these components from the bilge, that can
significantly change the dynamics of the boat. So I would guess putting a
few heavy items in the bilge would have little overall affect, but this is
just a guess.

Also, some folks have moved the 15 gallons of water from the bow area. This
also affects the overall balance of the boat. I have worked with designers
and they do take into account every little weight detail. So moving heavy
stuff around does have an effect on the overall stability and performance
of the boat -- some might be good, but some might be bad. Oh, and a good
designer does take into account the stores the owner might include in the
boat. Of course this is an estimate, but a good designer has a pretty good
idea what should be placed in a boat. The Vega handbook even has
suggestions as to what should be stored and where.

I was once working on a Fuji 35 and she sat several inches below her
waterline because the owner had so much stuff onboard. His solution: paint
the bottom-paint higher up the side of the boat. Not all that good a
solution as the boat's performance suffered.

dougpol1 · Apr 2, 2013

My Vega SeaLegs had the tank removed from the keel and a twenty gallon
tank put in the port cockpit locker. There are three batteries and they
are in the starboard locker. I would not have done that. Still if you
are off cruising the small tank in the builge would not be enough and
you would be carrying a couple jerry cans on deck which places fuel even
higher. I doubt that I will ever carry more than the twenty I can put in
the the port locker. IF I decide to go down the inland water way I will
likely carry about 10 gallons in the bilge port tank battery locker and
about 5 in a jerry can in the builge. On a trip like that I can get fuel
every few days.
I may put a holding tank in the builge?? I have a very small one behind
the head but we don't use it. We use wag bags except at sea. It is legal
to put them in Dumpsters and that is what we do. At the present time I
have a couple batteries in the builge that are not used. I haven't
removed them as they are low ballast. I will get rid of them this
summer. I have one anchor rode with about fifity feet of chain pluse
rope. I want to put a second anchor up there all chain which I am
thinking I will pull back into the battery storage area to only be used
when really needed and to act a s low ballast. Anyway that is my
tentative plans. Doug

mphalv · Apr 2, 2013

Drain Plug intact? Sealed properly?

Paul
Double Fantasy

reefmagnet · Apr 2, 2013

The rear of my keel is hollow. Don't know if it was added by a PO or is
original, but on my Mk I Vega, there is a drain plug installed at the
bottom of this hollow section. A PO has also installed a pipe with an
inspection cover into this hollow section from inside the bilge, presumably
to allow it to be inspected or drained. I've not been game enough to open
it and have a look in since the boat's been on the water so I've no idea if
its filling with water or not. What I do know is the fibreglass thickness
of the keel around 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick so it is possible it could leak if
damaged.

stevebirch2002 · Apr 2, 2013

Hi Mark

Check

Toilet inlet, toilet outlet. Taste the water (Is it salt), if fresh then either water tank or leaking through the cockpit sole, Sterngland (Usual suspect), engine coolant inlet, sink inlet, sink outlet, Bilge drain. Might be an idea to chat to Karen previous but one owner.

Cheers

STeve BFrom: mrkk1103
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:19 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Do you put anything heavy in your bilges

Thanks for all the postings, interesting stuff.

I mentioned that 48 hours after my boat went into the water there was about a foot of water in the bilge which was a bit worrying. Then found that the bilge pump wasn't turning on automatically either!

So the engineer at the marina has replaced the sensor (sorry but I'm just not as practical as most of you seem to be) and we're trying to figure out where the water is coming in. It may well have slowed down as well which is good but I'd like to know what's happening. We've checked the sea cocks and the stern gland and all seems OK. One of the engineers thinks he may have seen some bubbles which sort of indicate a pin hole in the keel. Have any of you come across this? We're not sure if this is the case at the moment but I'm interested to hear if any of you have. Not sure if I dare ask but could this be the first signs of something much more serious?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mark

btfag0s · Apr 2, 2013

As far as I am aware this is just a void under the bilge.
Around twenty years ago mine (V752) was full of water, so I ground out the corroded drain plug, dried out the void and glassed it over. It seems to have been empty ever since, but I can't see any harm coming from it being damaged .. although I don't like the idea of a drain hatch in the bilge.

Alisdair

SVFlyAway · Apr 2, 2013

One other source of fresh water in the bilge of my series two one time.
There are little hoses leading from the outside edge of the cockpit locker
to a fitting in the cockpit. In my thrashing about changing out the fuel
system I managed to knock one of these off the fitting and the rain water
dumped inside the boat rather than into the cockpit. The bilge was almost
fllled to the battery tray level.

btfag0s · Apr 2, 2013

I've just remembered that I had a similar experience many years ago after launching; the problem was the salt water inlet (starboard side of the keel, just under the floor in the bilge in my MKI, worth checking as it's out of sight and out of mind.

If you are launching in the briny did you dip your finger in the water to see if it was fresh or salt? - it might be a leaky water tank/galley pump .. I've had that as well.

Alisdair

btfag0s · Apr 2, 2013

+1 for that suggestion. Yep, I've had that as well. Taste the water before panicking (assuming you're in salt water).

Alisdair

carlo_1894 · Apr 7, 2013

Don't know if in the meanwhile you have worked out the problem. But Mark, it always happened to me that after long period on dry dock when I put the boat in the water later I find a full bilge. On earth the boat does not seat perfectly leveled and water (rain water, of course) gathers where it should not because drains have different slope, when back in the water the right trim brings everything back at the right place. This before undergoing a heart treatment for "micro holes in the keel"...
Cheers
Carlo

winslowbuoy · Apr 7, 2013

Do you still have a combi unit, it is possible for water to come up into the boat between the inner and outer shaft if you have not put sufficient grease into the propellor boss and the combi control unit. Another thought there is a hole for a grease nipple on the propellor boss usually filled with square headed bolt. Has this been replaced.
If it was coming up the shaft the water would initially be in the tray under the engine and then overflowing to the bilge , unless your drip tray has been modified.Mike

stevebirch2002 · Apr 7, 2013

This Vega has a Beta. The rudder bearing (udder Shoe) is in its own Bronze fitting and does not have an inlet to the keel. The top of the rudder tube is above the waterline so shouldnt leak there. Have you checked the saltwater inlet for the sink. There is a skin-fitting, valve and it could be the actual salt-water tap footpump if the diaphragm has split.

Hope this helps

Steve BFrom: MICHAEL FREEMAN
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2013 6:46 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Do you put anything heavy in your bilges
Do you still have a combi unit, it is possible for water to come up into the boat between the inner and outer shaft if you have not put sufficient grease into the propellor boss and the combi control unit. Another thought there is a hole for a grease nipple on the propellor boss usually filled with square headed bolt. Has this been replaced.
If it was coming up the shaft the water would initially be in the tray under the engine and then overflowing to the bilge , unless your drip tray has been modified.

Mike

tim_klynn · Apr 7, 2013

When I first got my boat, I noticed that I had a very slight leak close to the top edge of the bilge near the battery tray (I've got a series II). After hauling it out, I also noticed some water oozing out of the very front of the keel. Checking into the keel, I found that there was a small patch with what looked like bondo automotive body filler (which is not waterproof) on the leading bottom corner of the keel. I epoxied this spot as well as the spot in the bilge where I had the slight leak and the bilge was been dry since. (well almost since, I have had to chase down a few above waterline leaks here and there)

I suspect that my keel was saturated (even though it is supposed to be solid) and the pressure of being in the water forced leakage into the bilge. I forget if you checked the garboard plug, but maybe someone sealed over the garboard hole with something that is not quite water proof.

If you can't find the source and get it very dry, you could try to dust the area with something like chalk dust (colored works well, like carpenters chalkbox chalk). Where the dust gets wet it will show it (and make a mess). Tim