Dismasted!

[CalebD]

Thanks for the tip on the polypropylene core, Caleb. I was going to use balsa, not plywood, per the original design. It sounds like this stuff will be cheaper, and less likely to rot - it's hard to argue with that! And my complements to your recore job. I only wish I had 3-4 days to just work on it. As it is, I get about 2 hours, once a week. I spend about 15-20 minutes of that just setting up and wrapping up. The plus is that I am working on a trailer in my driveway. How was it working on the water? I don't know if I would have even attempted that.

Brian,
I came very close to using Balsa core again on my boat as the original Balsa core had lasted 45 years. I ended up chosing the polypropylene honeycomb core because it was about the same price as plywood and because it was not wood and I'm not disappointed.
I bought a 4' x 8' sheet of the 1/2" core (thinking I would do both port & stbd decks this season, ha!) and I have a bunch of scrap material hanging around. I'd be happy to send you a scrap so you could see it up close; send me a private message if so.

Working on the boat while at the finger pier as we did was not ideal but preferable to doing it at our mooring. Two of us worked on our port deck re-core for nearly 3 full afternoons and it was a little gruesome. Waiting for the last coat of epoxy to "kick" added a good amount of time to our project.

I still have some more epoxy-ing, sanding and painting to do to make the deck pretty again so that is another (at least) 2 more days. I haven't posted any pictures (yet) of our Frankenstein port deck. Your core areas that need replacing are fairly small so hopefully it wont take you nearly as long.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

Brian,

This is a great thread. Sorry it had to come as a result of you losing a mast! I will triple inspect my bulkheads at the chainplates for rot.

Since you are tearing up the interior perhaps you could answer a question - where is your fresh water tank located? Mine is missing, I believe it used to be under the v-berth. I saw in one of your photos the hose coming up from under the sink.

Oh yeah, what kind of winds were you in when you lost the mast? I suppose if rot were the culprit it would not really take too much.

Ken

Thanks, Ken. I'm glad you're enjoying it! I was a little worried that it was too similar to other threads on this site, but then again every project is different. So far, I have gotten tons of invaluable advice, so I intend to keep it going.

To answer your question about the tank, I doctored up one of my pictures. You can see both ends of the hose. There is also a removable piece of wood (not shown) which holds the tank in place.

Winds during the incident were steadily 20mph, gusting over 30mph. In other words, no "sane" person would be on the lake

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

Your core areas that need replacing are fairly small so hopefully it wont take you nearly as long.

Don't be fooled by the small holes I've cut so far. The rot on the deck extends all the way to the bow. I will be attempting to re-core the entire thing. I also hold no illusions about being able to re-use the top skin. I intend to lay an entirely new skin and then paint the entire deck so that it matches. But I will cross that bridge when I get there. Right now, I'm focused on getting rid of all the bad stuff.

The good news is that I have all summer to do it right. While I'd love to splash this fall for a sail or two, I decided not to pay my slip fees this year so I wouldn't feel pressured to get the job done quickly.

 

[kpgraci]

To answer your question about the tank, I doctored up one of my pictures. You can see both ends of the hose. There is also a removable piece of wood (not shown) which holds the tank in place.

ohhhh...so that's what that hole is for. I thought it was storage.

20kts? Not insane maybe but a good way to test your rigging.

Thanks.

 

[CalebD]

Don't be fooled by the small holes I've cut so far. The rot on the deck extends all the way to the bow. I will be attempting to re-core the entire thing. I also hold no illusions about being able to re-use the top skin. I intend to lay an entirely new skin and then paint the entire deck so that it matches. But I will cross that bridge when I get there. Right now, I'm focused on getting rid of all the bad stuff.

The good news is that I have all summer to do it right. While I'd love to splash this fall for a sail or two, I decided not to pay my slip fees this year so I wouldn't feel pressured to get the job done quickly.

Well, you had me fooled!

I'm not sure if you will find what I did but I had sections of old Balsa core that really did not want to come out easily. In hindsight I should have used a router with a cutting bit that had a bearing on the bottom so I could cut out all the old core without cutting through the bottom skin. I ended up putting a few holes in the bottom skin using cave man tools like hammer & chisel anyway.

Also in hindsight I'd have preferred to not reuse the old top skin. I have a chance to get it right the 2nd time though as our starboard deck is up next for core replacement.

Have you measured the depth of the existing core on your boat yet?

 

[kpgraci]

I bought one of these multitools to remove a fiberglass tub in my house. It is the best thing ever for cutting fiberglass skin off of a boat, including the core. I cut nearly perfect 5 inch circles for some speakers just by following a pencil line.

 

[kpgraci]

- the rigging was probably looser than it should have been. It was hand-tight, whereas in retrospect, I should have used a tool for some extra leverage.

Per the orignnal oday manual for the 22, hand tight is correct. I go a bit more than that, but the leeward shrouds should go (just) slack on a beam reach.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

After a couple weeks of business travel and daily thunderstorms, I finally got a chance to continue today. My first task was to sand down the patches I had made to the bottom skin.

The first thing I discovered is that my sander hardly removes any fiberglass. It's a finishing sander, but I thought I could compensate by using 25-grit sand paper. Amateur mistake, I guess. I assume I really need a random orbital to trim down my less-than-smooth fiberglass patch...

I also tried to measure the thickness of the core. I came up with somewhere between 1/4" and 3/8", depending on where I measured. Does anyone know what this *should* be for a 1976 O'Day 22?

Other than that, I spent the rest of my time scraping all of the goop off the deck from where the toe rails had been.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

Well, I finally got up the nerve to make some major cuts. I cut the top skin all the way from the chain plates to the bow. It was slow going, and I had to stop periodically to prevent the saw from overheating. I only got through the port side, and didn't quite finish that.

I have to say, I was very nervous to start, but once I got going, I got more and more comfortable with the idea. I still have no idea whether I will be able to learn the skills to take this project to completion, but there's really no turning back now.

I included some pictures this time, before and after the cut. While I was cutting, my friend helped by removing the last of the toe rails.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

More cutting today. I had tried to chisel out the top skin in large sections, but it wasn't working so I went back and cut it up into more manageable sections. With some help from some good friends, we were then able to remove the smaller sections of glass. At times, the core was so waterlogged that it literally squirted out water at us.

One of the sections came out in one piece, revealing the structure of the core. It seems to have been laid in about 2x4" sections. I was a little surprised that the core was tiled as opposed to a more continuous piece of wood. Maybe this slows the spread of water? Or maybe not - it is end-grain balsa afterall. It's probably just less expensive.

I'm making decent progress at this point. Our biggest hurdle was four people trying to work with only two ladders. I think next time I'll set up some scaffolding for us.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

Warmer weather has finally returned (what a long, cold winter!). It's still a little too cold for glass work, so my focus shifts to the bulkhead inside. I would like to completely replace it with new wood rather than try to patch up the original. The cabin usually gets a little water inside during the winter, so I want to make sure I get the right stuff. What type of plywood should I use? I assume there are certain types of wood that hold up better to being wet.

 

[Brian S]

BS6566 grade okoume or meranti plywood would be good for structural work, as it's only B/BB grade faces. BS1088 grade okoume ply would be nicer from an appearance standpoint, with A/B faces. Of course, to replace it with something original, perhaps some nice teak plywood, well... that'll have a bit of cost...

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

A retroactive post from last fall. Somehow the weather was warm enough in upstate NY to continue working into November. Rather than snowfall, we had a few days in the 60s - warm enough to play with some resin. (The weather took a sharp turn, though, and what followed was a very long, cold winter).

Anyway, here's a shot of the new core that I laid in November (a special thanks to CalebD for pointing me to the poly core). I also managed to get a layer of glass on top of it to seal the deal before the winter. I am now getting around to rebuilding and fairing the deck surface.

Enjoy!

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

The first layer of the top skin is now on the boat. I used matted glass and then topped it off with some thickened epoxy to fill in the gaps / low areas. Next layer will probably be a woven glass.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

Progress is slow but steady. I have gotten a layer of woven glass applied bridging the new core and the old. I used the stuff that comes in 6" wide strips, and ran it along the junctions between the old glass and the new. I figure I will end up with 3-4 layers of glass on top of the core. Does anyone know if that sounds about right? How do I know when I have enough?

 

[justsomeguy]

Progress is slow but steady. I have gotten a layer of woven glass applied bridging the new core and the old. I used the stuff that comes in 6" wide strips, and ran it along the junctions between the old glass and the new. I figure I will end up with 3-4 layers of glass on top of the core. Does anyone know if that sounds about right? How do I know when I have enough?

It's a boat. When it looks good, it's good.

Personally, I'd go with "more than enough", then sand it down fair.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Brian;

I should have chimed in. I would suggested that the edges be 45 degrees or more coming from the inside to the outside with each successive layer of glass being large enough to fit that beveled edge. Also, you may want to purchase a resin roller to roll out the glass smooth and get rid of air bubbles. Use of alcohol or acetone on the roller helps to keep the resin and goo as I call it from collecting on the roller. When you feel that you have laid all the glass (make sure you lighltly sand between each layer of glass), take some black or gray spray paint and paint the area. Then sand. Where paint is left suggest a low area either in need of more glass and/or two part epoxy. Once wet sanded, I added a fine slow cure two part epoxy to fill in the small holes and again wet sanded with 400 wet and dry sandpaper using water of course.

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

Crazy Dave,

Thanks for the input. 45 degrees seems pretty steep from what I've heard. I have been using a much more gradual slope of about 1 over 12 (sloped over about 12x as wide as high, or roughly 5 degrees). I do have a roller, but have had more luck with a resin spread, like this product: http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...d=product_ad&gclid=CNH0h8XPzMACFQwV7AodAUgAwg It just seems to be better at not pulling the glass away from the boat (especially for matted glass).

Thanks for the paint tip - sounds like a great way to easily identify low areas!

 

[Brian Schwerdt]

I'm now at a stage of seemingly endless filling/fairing. I have been using west system 407 fairing filler with polyester resin, and sanding it down with 40 grit paper on a random orbital palm sander. The sander doesn't seem to take material off very quickly even with the very coarse paper. Am I using the wrong tool here? What would you use?

 

[RIVERCRUISER]

Disclaimer... I have no connection with this product other than using it with good results.

Mirka Abranet sanding discs.

Great to use with dust collector (shop-vac).

Discs last longer than grit discs.