Difficult time raising the main

Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The halyard looks like hardware store nylon rope. If there is a wrong line to use for halyard on a boat, that line would be close to the worst, way too stretchy.
 
May 14, 2019
24
CORONADO 23-2 Home
3/8" halyard sounds too big for this duty, my 23-2 uses 5/16 on both main and jib and that is the recommended size from the factory. You might check sailboat data or your owners manual, but I'll bet that is too large a diameter for your halyards.
I wonder if the size was upped to compensate for the sheeve issue.
MarknTara- Wonder Monkey
 
Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
The halyard looks like hardware store nylon rope. If there is a wrong line to use for halyard on a boat, that line would be close to the worst, way too stretchy.
You nailed it. I don't want to invest in expensive halyards for this boat.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
To rule out a problem with the halyard & sheave, try hoisting about 25 or more pounds up on the halyard. If it works for the first 5 feet, neither the halyard nor the sheave are the problem.

If the halyard is lead aft to the cockpit though additional blocks, unreeve them and do the test at the mast first . If that works okay, run the halyard through the next block and retest. Continue adding one additional sheave or component until you have tested the whole layout.

I’ve done these diagnostic tests on old boats and found worn out sheaves and sheave box pins that had to be replaced. But usually, the loads on a 17 foot boat are too light to cause pin or sheave box wear. But if the sheave or sheave box is plastic, you may find a worn, cracked or broken part. Start with a careful visual inspection with a flash light.

After 25 or 30 years, boat parts wear out and need replacement.
 
Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
3/8" halyard sounds too big for this duty, my 23-2 uses 5/16 on both main and jib and that is the recommended size from the factory. You might check sailboat data or your owners manual, but I'll bet that is too large a diameter for your halyards.
I wonder if the size was upped to compensate for the sheeve issue.
MarknTara- Wonder Monkey
3/8 came with the boat. Previous owner probably overcompensated, and I didn't know any better.
 
Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
To rule out a problem with the halyard & sheave, try hoisting about 25 or more pounds up on the halyard. If it works for the first 5 feet, neither the halyard nor the sheave are the problem.

If the halyard is lead aft to the cockpit though additional blocks, unreeve them and do the test at the mast first . If that works okay, run the halyard through the next block and retest. Continue adding one additional sheave or component until you have tested the whole layout.

I’ve done these diagnostic tests on old boats and found worn out sheaves and sheave box pins that had to be replaced. But usually, the loads on a 17 foot boat are too light to cause pin or sheave box wear. But if the sheave or sheave box is plastic, you may find a worn, cracked or broken part. Start with a careful visual inspection with a flash light.

After 25 or 30 years, boat parts wear out and need replacement.
The sheeve at the foot of the mast is broken. This is a pic of the mast foot when it was off the mast. Can you tell me how to replace the sheeve?
 

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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
The sheeve at the foot of the mast is broken. This is a pic of the mast foot when it was off the mast. Can you tell me how to replace the sheeve?
@Dhamil6490

The photo is too low resolution to see any detail, so it’s not much use. Please post higher resolution pics with both a side and a front view. Like I’ve already said at least twice, we can't help alot unless your pictures are bigger, in focus and well lighted!!

But the general approach would be as follows. Remove the pin. Remove the sheave. Measure the inner and outer diameters and the width. Use calipers. You can get plastic calipers for less than $5. Get back to us with a high res picture taken in good light, so we can help you locate an appropriate replacement.

Inspect the pin for wear and straightness. Inspect the hole in the mast foot for wear. Uneven pins cause the side of the sheaves to rub against the cheeks and cause friction, side wear on the sheave and chafe on the halyard.

Get back to us with high resolution big pics of the parts. show at least two views from different angles, around 90 degrees apart.
 
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Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
@Dhamil6490

The photo is too low resolution to see any detail, so it’s not much use. Please post higher resolution pics with both a side and a front view. Like I’ve already said at least twice, we can't help alot unless your pictures are bigger, in focus and well lighted!!

But the general approach would be as follows. Remove the pin. Remove the sheave. Measure the inner and outer diameters and the width. Use calipers. You can get plastic calipers for less than $5. Get back to us with a high res picture taken in good light, so we can help you locate an appropriate replacement.

Inspect the pin for wear and straightness. Inspect the hole in the mast foot for wear. Uneven pins cause the side of the sheaves to rub against the cheeks and cause friction, side wear on the sheave and chafe on the halyard.

Get back to us with high resolution big pics of the parts. show at least two views from different angles, around 90 degrees apart.
Sorry for the low res. It's the best I can do. Your general instructions are helpful.
 

LloydB

.
Jan 15, 2006
805
Macgregor 22 Silverton
Had the similar problem a couple years back and tried the shortcut fix.(old habit-didn't work) After researched on this site there are some basic answers to the sticky bolt rope problem: go first class, its going to cost $$$ so get the best material for the fix, take the mast down and clean and lube it so you can tell where rough spots are(i used a Teflon spray) with the main down you can slide it along the mast and tell if it hangs up, the bolt rope inside the sail swells up over time you may need to stretch it tighter(can't tell by looking just try it). If there is something askew with a pulley or a sheave it will hang up 100% when least desired.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
While the stretchy line is not good for performance, it should not prevent you from raising the main. If it stretches, that will make the line thinner, so I doubt the size of the line is the issue. My guess would be the plastic attachment point is twisting upward in the slot, causing the bolt rope to bind. Try tugging down on the leach while raising it, to rotate the bottom of the plastic closer to the slot. The wear on the bolt rope suggests that is where it is binding. The bolt rope has probably worn thin and is working/wedging its way out of the slot.
I would also bet if you pulled straight down on the bolt rope, you could work it back into the slot to raise it the rest of the way.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
There are millions of stories about mainsails that wouldn't go up and about 100 reasons why.
Diagnose the problem as follows

First, Fix the broken sheave at the foot of the mast.
1. Test the lines and sheaves in the system, without the mainsail, as described in my post #24 above. If there's a problem, fix it.
2. Hoist using the mainsail without any battens. If it won't go up, the problem is with either the bolt rope and bolt rope cover, or the inside of the mast grove. You may need to have a new bolt rope installed. (You can't stretch it out to make it thinner; that doesn't work. The dacron has lost its suppleness due to age. Like old socks that won't stay up)
3. Hoist the mainsail with the full battens installed. If it won't go up, the problem is how the full batten hardware at the luff was installed. There are a bunch of details that all have to work together in concert to handle that. An experienced sailmaker can help you.

Judy B
 
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Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
Had the similar problem a couple years back and tried the shortcut fix.(old habit-didn't work) After researched on this site there are some basic answers to the sticky bolt rope problem: go first class, its going to cost $$$ so get the best material for the fix, take the mast down and clean and lube it so you can tell where rough spots are(i used a Teflon spray) with the main down you can slide it along the mast and tell if it hangs up, the bolt rope inside the sail swells up over time you may need to stretch it tighter(can't tell by looking just try it). If there is something askew with a pulley or a sheave it will hang up 100% when least desired.
The mast was cleaned and lubed with Sailcote right before launching this Spring. Lots of dirt removed, but no rough spots or damage to the bolt rope channel found. I examined the bolt rope in its entirety, and found uniform wear but nothing excessive. The saga continues. Thanks for your advice.
 
Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
There are millions of stories about mainsails that wouldn't go up and about 100 reasons why.
Diagnose the problem as follows

First, Fix the broken sheave at the foot of the mast.
1. Test the lines and sheaves in the system, without the mainsail, as described in my post #24 above. If there's a problem, fix it.
2. Hoist using the mainsail without any battens. If it won't go up, the problem is with either the bolt rope and bolt rope cover, or the inside of the mast grove. You may need to have a new bolt rope installed. (You can't stretch it out to make it thinner; that doesn't work. The dacron has lost its suppleness due to age. Like old socks that won't stay up)
3. Hoist the mainsail with the full battens installed. If it won't go up, the problem is how the full batten hardware at the luff was installed. There are a bunch of details that all have to work together in concert to handle that. An experienced sailmaker can help you.

Judy B
Thanks again for your advice. Do you know a sailmaker in or near Ohio?
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,024
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Did you look in the sail track from top to bottom with attention to wher it snage? How old are the sail slugs/ slides or whatever you call them as worn ones do snag as well. Check the mainsail roller and make sure there is nothing between the side of roller or sheave and the mast
 
Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
Did you look in the sail track from top to bottom with attention to wher it snage? How old are the sail slugs/ slides or whatever you call them as worn ones do snag as well. Check the mainsail roller and make sure there is nothing between the side of roller or sheave and the mast
Yes, the sail track was inspected from top to bottom. The sheave at the top of the mast was rolling freely and had no chips or cracks. No slugs or slides - only a bolt rope. I thought I would check the batten hardware near the luff next. Thanks for your response.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
No slugs or slides - only a bolt rope...
This is why I stated the bolt rope is probably wedging out of the slot. Most likely it is so worn that it partially pulls out of the slot and wedges itself. If you look where the hole is at the head of the sail, it is slightly out from the bolt rope. As the bolt rope drags, this causes the plastic attachment point to rotate, so the bolt rope pulls out of the slot and wedges itself. Tug on the leach while you raise the sail, so the plastic does not rotate. This will keep the bolt rope in the slot and prevent it from getting wedged. Ultimately you may have to replace it, but if you keep tension on the leach, you can probably get the sail to raise up.
 
Feb 26, 2019
68
Seaward 17 Ohio
This is why I stated the bolt rope is probably wedging out of the slot. Most likely it is so worn that it partially pulls out of the slot and wedges itself. If you look where the hole is at the head of the sail, it is slightly out from the bolt rope. As the bolt rope drags, this causes the plastic attachment point to rotate, so the bolt rope pulls out of the slot and wedges itself. Tug on the leach while you raise the sail, so the plastic does not rotate. This will keep the bolt rope in the slot and prevent it from getting wedged. Ultimately you may have to replace it, but if you keep tension on the leach, you can probably get the sail to raise up.
I tried tugging the leach. Some success. Also noticed the head plate on one side is not parallel with the bolt tope. Definitely a friction point.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
Tugging on the leach may not solve the problem, but definitely shows what the problem is. I wonder if finding a way to lift from a point lower in the head plate would keep it more parallel.