Dangers of spinakers
- Thread starter sailnewbie
- Start date
While we will sometimes 'play' with just our spin up, we never do it in more than 6-7 knots of breeze. Having the main up balances the sailplan, and also gives you a shadow to hide the kite behind when its time to take it down.
I've been stuck once having to pull down a kite in 13 knots without the main up and I didn't enjoy myself.
This year being the first year with our Sapphire we have learned a bit of asymmetrical spinnaker flying, as suggested by JD the sail can be easily flown up to about 15 k after that one must pay close attention to the amount of air in the kite. We are lucky to have a top down furler on our kite with lines led back to the cockpit, so handling of the sail, even single handing can be accomplished with relative ease. I would say the only way to learn is to fly it, just start out on light air days, one cannot argue they (spinnakers) are a beautiful sight and our very functional on those light air days.
Agreed. But also remember that those things are complex and can fail. I never hoist a sail that I don't know how I'd get it down in any possible circumstance.Top down.Saves the hassle of hoisting the main when it's an impediment to the breeze. The question was in response to the absolute nature of the comment. There's lots of reasons why not, but it shouldn't be a rule.
I always recommend that crews maintain traditional spinnakers skills, in particular dousing without a sock or furler.
A furler is much less complex though, in general, than the myriad of places that a snuffer can get hung up. Worst case, dropping the halyard results in the same mess as dropping a traditionally hoisted asym without any toys.
Agreed. But just saying 'dropping the halyard' trivializes what might be a complex and dangerous operation when in breeze and seastate, shorthanded, with time running out.
Getting the kite down is the reason 95% of these aids are bought/used, and for good reason. Its just important not to be 100% reliant on them.
Just like cars. We are going to soon have a generation of drivers who cannot manually parallel park.
I put my asym on a top down furler for ease of use. Still I am scared about a "Chinese Gybe".... Only flew it once this season with a more experienced sailor on board. Was exhilarating....
Good one. Hadn't thought about that. I was fixated on manual transmissions. Rare in the USA. Still prevalent in Europe.
My wife says that when I parallel park it is by Braille.
"Popping a spinnaker halyard" can be dangerous to your health. I had a pair of brand new sailing gloves on when we had to douse one as the wind picked up. The hole in the glove was right above my scorched finger. Confusing smells: burning leather and flesh at the same time. Not a fun BBQ at all.
;^)
I have a Saab Aero Convertible with a 6-speed. Often leave it parked with the top down. Jodi wondered about someone stealing it, until I reminded her about the gearbox.
Ah, sometimes called the bag of terror. But, it doesn't have to be. If it is an asymmetrical, it is really handled much like a very large genoa most of the time. Since it is flown on the same side of the mainsail, you have to steer more into the wind than dead down wind because the mainsail is blanketing the sail. That is why many one design racing boats have retractable sprits (introduced by J/Boats). The sprit pushes the sail away from the main for clearer air. Now you can find after-market retractable sprits that can be retrofitted onto your deck for this purpose. For boats with the traditional spinnaker pole attached to the front of the mast, one can steer the boat more dead down wind than boats with an asymmetrical. But, you cannot steer the boat as far to windward with the spinnaker pole-mounted boat as you can with an asymmetrical, which again, is more like a very large genoa at that angle. Rule #1 is never put up the mainsail without the main being up first - especially in heavy air. I suppose you could do it in light air, but NEVER when it is blowing stink. When it fills, it very well might rip the line out of your hand. The mainsail will blanket the sail while raising it safely and in a more controlled situation than with no main. There is a limit as to when you will decide to not fly the spinnaker. Most cruisers will play it safe and fly it only when they feel comfortable doing so and that has a lot to do with the wind velocity and how many crew members you have to handle the sail. A boat with a spinnaker and pole requires more crew as the wind increases. Asymmetrical kites don't require the crew because for one thing......there is no pole to handle. Racers who sail their boats effectively, will have the sail ready to launch as they reach the windward mark and as they round the mark, the sail will be hoisted so that when they are on the new course (which usually requires a gybe), the sail will be full and flying keeping the boat at full speed. Of course it doesn't always go according as planned depending on the experience of the crew, if they are ready when they sail up to the mark and of course, there sometimes are other boats approaching the mark at the same time which may interfere with your rounding depending on right of way rules, or screw ups. There is a thing called a "gybe-set" too, where because of a given situation you raise the spinnaker, gybe the boat (and main) and THEN attach the pole on the new windward side. Cruisers aren't so concerned about being efficient when raising and they shouldn't be for competitive reasons. But, they want it to go smoothly and of course no one wants to look like they don't know what they are doing, but you can fast put those days aside when you actually figure it all out. I have written more about trimming the two basic types of spinnakers and won't do that now. Back in the old IOR days of racing there used to be another downwind sail used called the blooper, which is flown in tandem with the spinnaker poled to the mast. They were smaller and were designed to keep the boat balanced when you were sailing more downwind so that you could even out the pressure in the combined effort of the two sails. Back in the day, when I was young and agile and would do anything, I used to sit in the bow pulpit of a boat I used to race and have both the spinnaker and blooper flying as I trimmed it from the bow of the boat. The helm was secured and I was single-handling. Of course, if the wind got too strong, things could go wrong and so I did it mostly with moderate to lighter air. Something else that was used back in those days you don't see so much anymore is a reaching strut too. When you were driving the boat as close to the wind as you could possible physically sail the boat with a spinnaker, the spinnaker pole outboard end would be touching (or nearly so) the forestay after easing it all the way, and the sheet would be trimmed in as tightly as allowed to keep the boat tracking to windward. At that point you have to wonder if the genoa wouldn't be the better sail in that situation, but maybe it was because you got a good temporary wind shift or something, or you were trying to stay high on a competitor. The after guy (which is the other line on the opposite side of the boat than the sheet - attached to the pole), which leads aft has a very acute angle and sometimes it was difficult - especially on a larger boat - to trim the after guy because the angle was so tight. The reaching strut was attached to the side of the mast and was longer than half the beam so that the after guy could be threaded through the outboard end increasing the angle of the guy for better trimming. Now that you are all probably totally confused, I will stop. By all means fly your spinnaker. There's nothing neater than sailing down wind with a beautiful colored spinnaker under control and you will go faster too. It puts a grin on your face. I have sailed my cruising boat under spinnaker and there often isn't another cruising boat doing the same thing. I have a few kites and the last time I used one (with pole and there were only two of us), I was running down the West Channel of the Apostles towards Bayfield on a marvelous sunny summer day. I was the only boat with a kite up. When I got back to the marina several people approached me and asked if that was me with the kite up all the way down that channel. Of course racers (of which I am also one) will use their kites all the time. Oh, one more story. There have been a few times when aground in the Bahamas where I had to put a spinnaker up to heel the boat over enough to sail into deeper water too. So, all that cloth is helpful then too.
Of course, No discussion of quickly getting a spin down in adverse conditions can be complete without a viewing of THE SAMURAI DOUSE.
With a top down, the thought of having to drop the halyard is a last ditch solution against the possibility, however small, or for whatever reason, that the furler won't. I understand the reluctance of people to fly big nylon, it's a good case for these accessory handling systems, but they in no way remove the responsibility to be able to get that thing off the stick in a hurry if need be.
I don't ever mean to trivialize it, every plan has to have a backup, and that is the backup. If it won't roll, and mine didn't once, you can't be standing there with your parts flailing in the wind, so to speak.
I don't ever mean to trivialize it, every plan has to have a backup, and that is the backup. If it won't roll, and mine didn't once, you can't be standing there with your parts flailing in the wind, so to speak.
Start in light air, assuming you're not racing, to get the feel. If it's a spinnaker, keep the pole level and the clews also at the same level. Let the sheets out so that the wind passes across the sail and not into the dead center. Make sure you have help and play with it. Retrieve the clew first then the head; and don't let the head in the water. Have fun, it's a blast.
Yeah. The sun-faded "new driver" hand written sheet of paper taped inside the back window. Maybe there should be a requirement to have training beyond the 87 seconds of experience in the passenger seat providing guidance? Oh wait, we got rid of that too.
My understanding is that the Chinese Gybe is more of a risk with a symmetrical kite that can be pulled to windward. With an asymmetrical I think the bigger risk is a plain old broach if reaching in heavy air. The broach comes with much noise and bother, but a little less risk of catastrophic damage.
This might be true with a Hunter with the B&G rig or other boats without a back stay or on fractional boats but on a masthead rigged boat the main is not needed to counter the foresail loads.
Unless I am racing my preferred deployment of my spinnaker is without the main. The Star of Papillon is a very large asymmetric (1 square inch under the max size for a 4 spin rating) which makes it more prone to collapsing due to mainsail blanketing. It actually behaves more like a symmetric and I often fly it with my spin-pole when racing. With the main down I can sail much deeper angles and it is much more relaxed.
Besides, Sue made it pretty and why shouldn't we be able to enjoy seeing it too?
My way out for symmetrical spinnaker is to blow the guy. After that the spinnaker is a flag underneath the main. Yet there are those who hold that this is dangerous. I guess if the guy fouled there would be "A problem." So would someone explain why a complete release of the guy as the first step in a douse is dangerous.
BTW I also don't like having a sail up that I can't take down. There's always the flare gun, I guess.
BTW I also don't like having a sail up that I can't take down. There's always the flare gun, I guess.
That works IF the kite goes behind the main. But if the sheet is not pulled in at the same time, it often balloons out in front of the boat, and powers up more.