Yeah, I think the summers have veen getting warmer over the past 30-40 years. That would explain a trend towards stronger one-shore thermals in the afternoon over the past 30-40 years.
Cutting Genoa to a 135, is it a good idea?
- Thread starter ontherocks83
- Start date
How much weather helm do you have with the 150? If a lot, that's another reason to drop to the 135.
150s have been delivered on "racer/cruisers" because that was the largest sail you could have without penalty under most racing measurements systems. It's too big a sail for cruising -- and will cause excess weather helm and too much heel even in moderate conditions. (on most boats - there are exceptions)
Unless you plan to race your Catalina a lot, I'd drop back to the 135. The 150 may have been a factory option that the PO took.
Who built these sails? If these were stock sails or built for price, I'd think about getting a new one instead of spending probably 50% of a new sail in the conversion and still have a sail that will lose its shape quickly. The conversion is not a simple job since the leech has to be redone.
Since the genoa determines how well you go upwind, it's worth going upmarket if you care about performance. Talk to your sailmaker about using a premium Dacron like Marblehead. See this link from Mack Sails - http://macksails.com/sail-cloth/
The sailmaker is likely to suggest one of the laminates as it is more profitable and racers all buy laminate. The problem is they rarely last more than 3 years (which is fine for racers who buy new every year) and they have a nasty habit of getting black mold splotches that look awful. I stick with a high quality Dacron.
Mack also makes a special "Mitre Cut" for dacron genoa's. I have one on my boat and after 6 years of pretty heavy sailing it still looks like new. http://macksails.com/sails/
150s have been delivered on "racer/cruisers" because that was the largest sail you could have without penalty under most racing measurements systems. It's too big a sail for cruising -- and will cause excess weather helm and too much heel even in moderate conditions. (on most boats - there are exceptions)
Unless you plan to race your Catalina a lot, I'd drop back to the 135. The 150 may have been a factory option that the PO took.
Who built these sails? If these were stock sails or built for price, I'd think about getting a new one instead of spending probably 50% of a new sail in the conversion and still have a sail that will lose its shape quickly. The conversion is not a simple job since the leech has to be redone.
Since the genoa determines how well you go upwind, it's worth going upmarket if you care about performance. Talk to your sailmaker about using a premium Dacron like Marblehead. See this link from Mack Sails - http://macksails.com/sail-cloth/
The sailmaker is likely to suggest one of the laminates as it is more profitable and racers all buy laminate. The problem is they rarely last more than 3 years (which is fine for racers who buy new every year) and they have a nasty habit of getting black mold splotches that look awful. I stick with a high quality Dacron.
Mack also makes a special "Mitre Cut" for dacron genoa's. I have one on my boat and after 6 years of pretty heavy sailing it still looks like new. http://macksails.com/sails/
So a couple of things.
The thread title is now misleading, I thought it was a 150 when I started the post but it really is a 140 because of the tall rig and bow sprit.
The next size he can properly cut it down to is a 115.
The sail was made by them (Quantum/Thurston sail maker) using quality Dacron. The previous owner who is a long time family friend was obsessed with sailing and spared no expense when it came to sails and rigging (his wife learned to look the other way when it came to boat stuff
)The boat has a significant weather helm once you get over 15 knots. I have to start detuning the main above that and by 18-19knots I put in the first reef.
To be honest, aside from the weather helm and excessive heeling, I'm really getting tired of pulling in so much genoa sheet on every tack when going to weather.
Not to mention racing boats generally put bodies on the rail so they can carry the 150 in higher wind.
Things have changed in the past 20 years.
Cruising laminates last much longer than 3 years, and the shape is far better than the best dacron crosscut sails after a few years. Dacron lasts longer, but the shape doesn’t last as long as a laminate. For the average weekend seasonal sailor, laminates last 7 years and have a like new shape.
Mildew isn’t as big a deal as it used to be, unless you live in a very humid, topical place. Proper periodic cleaning really helps for Dacron and cruising laminates.
You cant generalize that laminates are more profitable than dacrons. It doesn’t work that directly. Sailmakers compete hard on price, reputation, and type/level of customer support and service.
Judy B
Semi-retired sailmaker
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Spent a couple summers in Wickford and the winds would pipe up in the afternoon. The typical plan was to sail up to Dutch Island on a beat in the morning, have lunch on the beach, then ride the afternoon breeze back doing hull speed, surfing the whitecaps. We would race the boat out of East Greenwich [edit: mainly evening club races] and the winds were usually relatively light, seldom significant whitecaps. Really miss the fall foliage colors!
San Francisco Bay always has strong winds in the summer. The “Latitude 38” magazine cover pictures, and articles, always show boats sailing with measurable heel. Crewed on a Cal 40 there and it was a good boat for the Bay.
Too late to comment about sail cut, but a suggestion would be to put a draft stripe on the sail, horizontal with the water line, then take a picture of the sail from the deck looking up. I’d think the sailmaker would have some software to determine where and how much draft the sail has, then provide good input.
Since the opportunity to do that is gone, maybe ask how much it would be to put some draft stripes on both sails for future use. That could be a DIY job.
The weather on the west coast has had significant change. Winters locally always had a number of snow events here, 1 > 2 feet. Past few years, nothing. Just a couple dustings and maybe one 6-incher. “Conserve water” is what the water districts are saying. Living near the forest is like living surrounded by firewood; Fir burns fast and hot.
San Francisco Bay always has strong winds in the summer. The “Latitude 38” magazine cover pictures, and articles, always show boats sailing with measurable heel. Crewed on a Cal 40 there and it was a good boat for the Bay.
Too late to comment about sail cut, but a suggestion would be to put a draft stripe on the sail, horizontal with the water line, then take a picture of the sail from the deck looking up. I’d think the sailmaker would have some software to determine where and how much draft the sail has, then provide good input.
Since the opportunity to do that is gone, maybe ask how much it would be to put some draft stripes on both sails for future use. That could be a DIY job.
The weather on the west coast has had significant change. Winters locally always had a number of snow events here, 1 > 2 feet. Past few years, nothing. Just a couple dustings and maybe one 6-incher. “Conserve water” is what the water districts are saying. Living near the forest is like living surrounded by firewood; Fir burns fast and hot.
Judy -
About 3 or 4 years ago I took the jib in for a new UV cover as the stitching was falling apart and the "Sunbrella?" cover wasn't looking that good, either.
Picked up the sail and they had slapped on a clear "plastic" UV cover, attached with self-adhesive. Was I surprised! I told the guy, (worker-bee) that mold will grow under that and there is no way to clean it. He replied "Buy a new sail".
Really need to start a new thread on this, but can't resist.
About 3 or 4 years ago I took the jib in for a new UV cover as the stitching was falling apart and the "Sunbrella?" cover wasn't looking that good, either.
Picked up the sail and they had slapped on a clear "plastic" UV cover, attached with self-adhesive. Was I surprised! I told the guy, (worker-bee) that mold will grow under that and there is no way to clean it. He replied "Buy a new sail".
One unavoidable issue considering cutting down a 150 is that a 150, in addition to being larger is usually constructed from a lighter fabric than a 135, say 5.5 oz versus 7 oz. You can reduce its size but you can't change the fabric, so I'd forgetaboutit.
Seven years ago we bought a new 135 for use as our only jib in MA. Based on our experience over this period, our next new sail will be a 130 or 125, ie even smaller would be a better fit.
Seven years ago we bought a new 135 for use as our only jib in MA. Based on our experience over this period, our next new sail will be a 130 or 125, ie even smaller would be a better fit.
UPDATE:
So as a very late follow up I got the sail back from Quantum sails. It was cut down to a 110 and they had to do it by modifying all 3 sides. The luff is new and now has some kind of foam stiffener in the leading edge going back about 6 or 8 inches, the leech was reshaped, and most drastically the foot is cut at a much higher angle. Now when close hauled I can see under the Genoa.
I've only had it out twice this year because I am having all my interior cushions remade and they still aren't ready (should be ready next week) ::fingers crossed::
When I did have the boat out in 20-22 knot winds it seemed to handle much easier, didn't heel as much but still held great speed, and had way less sheet to haul in! The most important thing is my wife is much happier with the sail and how much nicer the boat rides in heavy winds.
All in All I would say that I would absolutely do it again. Even though when we saw lighter winds I missed the 140, I feel that when I get a cruising spinnaker or gennaker it will be a great combination for our family.
So as a very late follow up I got the sail back from Quantum sails. It was cut down to a 110 and they had to do it by modifying all 3 sides. The luff is new and now has some kind of foam stiffener in the leading edge going back about 6 or 8 inches, the leech was reshaped, and most drastically the foot is cut at a much higher angle. Now when close hauled I can see under the Genoa.
I've only had it out twice this year because I am having all my interior cushions remade and they still aren't ready (should be ready next week) ::fingers crossed::
When I did have the boat out in 20-22 knot winds it seemed to handle much easier, didn't heel as much but still held great speed, and had way less sheet to haul in! The most important thing is my wife is much happier with the sail and how much nicer the boat rides in heavy winds.
All in All I would say that I would absolutely do it again. Even though when we saw lighter winds I missed the 140, I feel that when I get a cruising spinnaker or gennaker it will be a great combination for our family.
Glad to hear it’s working for you.
Sounds like foam luff inserts for furling. They let you partially furl the headsail without losing too much shape.