My first “upgrade” on my 1990 Hunter 30 is going to be a new jib sheet. On my old Hunter 240 I always used a cow hitch(one line folded at the center and pushed through the clew and pulling both ends through between the bend and the sail). It was simple and easy to tie and it performed flawlessly throughout the 6 years I used it. Now as I walk down the dock to my slip I’m noticing that not a single bigger boat uses the cow hitch. They all use more complex knots. Was I just dumb and lucky all this time? My little cow hitch was a small knot that never hung up when tacking. What’s the logic behind this? Thanks!
Cow Hitch For the Jib Sheet.
- Thread starter Caribbeanknight1
- Start date
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,799
I like the cow hitch. I use it on my boat. You have to be attentive to inspect your lines as it will eventually weaken the line at the knot. Then you can prune the line and come up with an alternate knot.
Here is the Google answer...
https://www.google.com/search?q=jib...uf_jYHcAhUQEHwKHZPoA4EQsAQIJg&biw=958&bih=981
Here is the Google answer...
https://www.google.com/search?q=jib...uf_jYHcAhUQEHwKHZPoA4EQsAQIJg&biw=958&bih=981
I don't think there is anything wrong with a cow hitch, except that it is a nuisance to remove. If you leave your sheets on the sail, then there is no problem. If you change head sails and use the same sheets, then you want to use a bowline or some other easily removable form of attachment to the clew. Any knot will weaken or deform the line to some extent.
Using two sheets:
Allows you to reverse them, cutting down on wear in one spot
Allows you to untie them at the sail or at the furl, handy more often then you might think to clear a mess.
Allows you to have red tracer in one line and green/blue in the other, makes it easier to keep track in a race
That being said, I have no issue with anyone to likes the luggage tag. Tight and convenient..
Allows you to reverse them, cutting down on wear in one spot
Allows you to untie them at the sail or at the furl, handy more often then you might think to clear a mess.
Allows you to have red tracer in one line and green/blue in the other, makes it easier to keep track in a race
That being said, I have no issue with anyone to likes the luggage tag. Tight and convenient..
Once you get too much wear at the sail, cut the line and go with knots.
If you are changing sails, a knot is a far better solution than a luggage tag/cow hitch for the reason @Jackdaw says.
Or flying a spinnaker. I can't count how many times being able to untie and re-run the bow-end of the jibsheet has saved our bowman.Once you get too much wear at the sail, cut the line and go with knots.
If you are changing sails, a knot is a far better solution than a luggage tag/cow hitch for the reason @Jackdaw says.
Only if you have roller furling and leave the sheets up should you consider the luggage tag. Separate sheets with a bowline is my preferred system. The bowline is a loop knot that can be easily untied under any circumstance. Your expensive sheets will stay fresh and last much longer if they are remove and stored between use. Reversing them regularly cuts down on wear and tear. And, especially if you change sails on the water with the conitions... leave the sheets in the blocks, untie them from the old sail on the deck and attach to the new clew.
Or you can do it this way. I've used this on all my last three boats with great success. I have a reef point in my jib and can just shift the sheets up or down as needed. NEVER had it come loose
I've used both approaches as mentioned the cow hitch works fine until the line wears or you need to change the sheets for other reasons. I like using bowlines however having two big knots hanging from means the sail ALWAYS hangs on the shrouds. I've modified the two bowline approach to a slightly different method so I don't have two big knots hanging from the sail. I now pass each line through the clew and then tie the bowline around the opposite sheet. Now the knot is pulled into the clew rather than hanging from it and it is close to the sail so things pass over the shrouds a little better. Not a huge improvement but it also puts all of the stress on the knot and not on the line. The bowline is pulled tight but no real stress on the loop so the back almost always breaks as its supposed to if I need to remove a line. and since teh loop just captures teh opposite sheet there is no single point of wear.
There is probably something wrong with this approach I'm not thinking of but it seems to work on my boat, at least for now.
Fair winds,
Victor
There is probably something wrong with this approach I'm not thinking of but it seems to work on my boat, at least for now.
Fair winds,
Victor
I've been looking for a better way so I'm going to try this out.
Like you, the problem I have with two bowlines on the jib is the knots hanging up in the shrouds. Ive found if I backwind the jib a little before pulling it across they will slide over the shrouds easier, but still hang up a bit. Since I change headsails I won't use a cow hitch and tying bowlines to a shackle, then attaching that to the clew just means more crap to hang up.
Previously tied bow lines which sometimes hung up. As an experiment I tried two eyesplices and a soft shackle. Works so well I’m still using the thrown together prototype from a year ago.
This works well. I used to have the luggage until the knot wore out from "improper storage". I cut the rope and tried two bowlines, but was not impressed with how cluncky it was for my 170.
After a couple variations i ened up with what i think is a bunt line knot. Its the same two ends that follow the path of one knot.
I like the red and green idea and you could do that here. Its tight so knot something you can untie quickly. I use a furler so dont need to ever untie this.
After a couple variations i ened up with what i think is a bunt line knot. Its the same two ends that follow the path of one knot.
I like the red and green idea and you could do that here. Its tight so knot something you can untie quickly. I use a furler so dont need to ever untie this.
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,799
When I here statements like this I wonder what happens when the under strong winds comes apart while the boat is heading for a lee shore and your sails are what can save you. Do you throw away the sail and the lines? Do you cut them away? It just feels like being painted into an no option corner.
Not sure whats happening here. If i understand, there is some scenerio where i need to remove the line?
I just undo the cams and the lines are free to wrap the furler manually. In a blow there is a good chance the furler wont roll all the way, so plan is good. If i had to swap sails bunt line might be a sub optimal choice. I like the splice and soft shackle technique. But that is actally super risky, imo. Undo that shackle and you lose both lines if not your shackle too. Now you are on a lee shore playing monkey in the middle on you bow.
Having options is always a good way to go if thats what you are implying, yes. Easy to undo, works great, bonus points for salty if possible.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,799
When I read your statement, I understood you were committed to a “secure” knot that is “tight so ‘not’ something you can untie quickly”.
In sailing I have accepted that just when all hell is about to happen Mr Murphy will participate and urge the happening. That is when you want to be able to change direction and not be “tied up in a knot so tight”.
I therefore suggest when using such a knot on your lines that you have another means to release the lines immediately available. A sharp knife in your pocket or at the helm so when things need to be done quickly you will be empowered.
Case in point we were heading up a channel, when a puff back winded the genoa while we were reefing it and created a overlap on the furler. Amid the swirling 15–20 knot breeze and in 4 foot seas I raced to the bow and used a marlin spike to free the furler, pulled the wrapped sail free and regained control of the boat.
There may come a moment when you may have to think outside the box to protect your boat. Having options may be the answer. It is why some sailors opt for the bowline or soft shackle in lieu of a knot “so tight”.
Certainly the size of the boat is a factor. What I might do on a less than 20 foot boat is different than how I might rig a 40 footer, but the principal of options is valid for both.
@Jackdaw , we obviously use our boats for different reasons, but I have dabbled in racing on other people's boats and am eager to learn. How is marking the foresail sheets an advantage for racers?
In the cockpit, I know which side of the boat I'm on, particularly as all good crews keep the genoa lines neatly stowed right by the winch / cleat. So I guess the risk is on the foredeck when you disconnect the sheet from the sail, either for a sail change or, as you noted, for easier spin handling. What's the risk of putting the sheets on 'backwards'? Not challenging your conclusion, just want to understand how this works.
BTW to the OP: On my cruising boat, I've used a cow hitch for three years since replacing the genoa sheets, for the reasons outlined above, with no signs of wear. As a compromise between size and wear, I wrap about 6-inches of extra sail tie webbing around the clew prior to tying the cow hitch annually to increase the diameter of turn and spread the force on the knot. I don't know if it helps, but it makes me feel better, which is the purpose of sailing.
This is a pretty elegant solution from the google search link; double becket hitch to a spliced tail. I would be nervous about it shaking out.
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Did you have to undo your cow hitch to fix the furling jam?
There is a very sharp serrated knife on board, and a needle nose pliers. Cable cutters wouldnt be a bad idea.
On a small boat like the 170. If the jib is possessed just heave-to and dominate it. Come up with a plan, loosen the affected lines, then sail downwind to suck the life out of it. You cut a jib line you better have a back up line already attached.