Confusion - Hunter vs. Rhodes vs. S2

[JimGo]

Kings Gambit, you're not a pain. The feedback is appreciated! A WWP is certainly one of our considerations, but that's well outside our price range. I found a 16' Diller Schwill that I still need to visit.

I visited a 22' Rhodes and a 22' S2 today. The Rhodes needs some work. It's a nice boat, but needs work. The S2 is in great shape, comes with a 6 HP Nissan motor, but doesn't come with a trailer. I'm not sure, in the end, that it's where we'll wind up, but MAN was that a pretty boat. I think the wider beam would mean a little more room in the cockpit for my wife and kids, and more stability for them, too. The cabin was a decent size, though headroom was certainly an issue compared to the Rhodes or the Hunter and Catalina. But it was in very nice shape and i liked her lines a lot.

 

[Daydreamer]

Picked up an Oday 22 shoal keel with a trailer three seasons ago. My wife and I can have it rigged and in the water in 30 to 40 minutes. I have even rigged by myself using a gin pole with a block system and launched by myself. Takes a lot longer though.

This year we rented a slip at the lake we sail at and have found ourselves using the boat more frequently, even for just an afternoon. We can leave the house and drive 30 minutes, in the car rather than the truck, and 15-20 minutes be sailing.

On overnighters we find the v-berth a bit confining for us but we manage. We haven't had more than the two of us aboard for an overnight. The settees are plenty long enough for an adult, just not wide enough for two.

I really like this boat but am starting to think something bigger would be nice.

Just two cents worth of info from another trailer sailor.

 

[MGoBoat]

Good luck with your search. We rejoined the sailing community this summer.

I second keeping the boat in the water if you can find a lace to do for a reasonable price. We keep our O'day 192 at Bald Eagle State Park, just north of State College. The ability to drop in and sail is worth the pittance they charge for our 'slip'. I use the term slip lightly as we have no power or water at the dock.

We are already looking forward to this winter's upgrade and maintenance in anticipation of the next sailing season.

 

[timebandit]

Hum, a docked boat.
Load food and stuff in car and drive the same distance to the marina.
Spend 15 min. looking for a dock cart.
Load dock cart twice and haul stuff 100 yards both ways.
Check and add fuel.
Stowe stuff and get under way.

Hook up boat.
Load all stuff in boat at home.
Step mast and bend on sails.
Back boat down the ramp and splash.
Drive the truck to parking area and come back.

I guess there is a lot less work if you slip--------

I drive 70 miles and it takes about 1/2 hour with gf help and maybe 1 hour if we have some snacks and goof around but who cares we are not working, we are going sailing and sailing is not work.

Some boats maybe hard to rig but a Mac is not one of them.

 

[JimGo]

Thank you to everyone who has chimed in - the feedback is GREATLY appreciated!

We're still really struggling with the "use case" for the boat. That is, how we want/expect to use it. The S2 is REALLY appealing. I've poked around a little, but it's hard to find information on the 6.8.

 

[Joe]

.......Size, now is the problem, a 22 foot boat with lots of time and practice still means a minimum of 2.5 hours in the parking lot each time you trailer it. To come close to this time that also means 2 men, not a man and a women or a young teenager. Anything less than 2 men means more time attaching and handling more mast raising equipment on a 22 foot or larger boat.

Two and a half hours! Are you kidding. and with two adults? yikes.. who on earth would ever buy a trailerable 22 footer if it took that long to rig it for launch?

Here's a guy that rigged the mast in less than 5 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKjUi2h0mX8

I've sailed many trailerables, from 14 to 25 feet... the small ones you just stick the mast in the slot, rig the sail, rudder, tiller, sheets and dagger board and shove off the beach. The larger ones all had mast raising systems... a crutch, like the video, or more complicated "gin" pole rigs... but none of them took more than 1/2 hour to get prepped, mast up, rigging set and lifting gear stowed. Another half hour to rig the rudder, motor, launch the boat and park the car... hoist the sails in the water .... you're off.

 

[taichi]

HUnter 23

I have a a 1985 Hunter 23 can can attest that it is a really well designed & thought out day-sailer or overnighter. I live about two hours from my marina so I day sail it off the trailer. I step the mast in the spring & unstep in the fall - It goes up and all rigging completed in under 20 minutes once you know what your doing. The H23 is remarkably stiff and we've had her healed over well exceeding her calculated hull speed and she stayed very stifff - could never get the toe rail under even by trying. It goes off and on the trailer quite easy with our GMC Jimmy. The cabiin has two large bearths port & starboard that sleep well or just to get out of the weather. Fun boat to sail and the draft is so shallow there really no worries about depth. It doesn't point as well as the racer I used to have but if you learn to trim your sails properly it will point well enough to get where you need to go usuallly. Good boat to learn on and parts and owner support are great.

 

[Ed Schenck]

There are a few S2's sailing in our little lake. But they are in slips, not off the trailer. I think two hours or more would be about right for trailering an S2. That's for the whole day, not just to get her in the water. And as previously mentioned, with a good strong helper. Even my Highlander takes a good hour to rig. I can do it with one helper but two are better.

 

[Merlin Clark]

I'd suggest at least a cabin that can be closed up. Sailing is fun but also taxing and a day on the water helps me sleep soundly. Small kids might take advantage of mom and dad crashed below and end up topside or maybe over the side.
Also, a cabin with enough room so that people are not stepping on each other, has enough room for simple activities with the kids if it rains, and has a little bit of (head or potty for the younger sailors) privacy when needed will make spending the night or a weekend on the boat much more pleasurable for all.

 

[JimGo]

Thanks for all the feedback!

So, I think right now, I'm down to the 1976 S2 6.8 or a Catalina 25. Both are going to be about the same price. Both have working motors (or so the owners claim - will verify before buying). Neither has a trailer. The S2 is in excellent shape for her age. Sails are still pretty crisp; sheets, halyards, and stays are all in great condition. She had the main, a 110 and 130 jib. No furler for the jib. It was the first time the owners had been to the boat since Hurricane Irene (I caught them "spur of the moment"), and everything was bone dry, but she was sitting on jack stands, not in the water. So I don't know TOO much about the soundness of the hull, but to my untrained and new (though fairly critical) eye, it looked pretty solid.

The Catalina isn't in quite the same shape. She still looks decent for her age, but her main sail has about a 4"x4" hole punched in it, though the jib (which was on a furler) was dirty but otherwise ok. Many of the lines will need to be replaced, but the standing riggig seemed to be in decent shape. The bow pulpit got caught on the dock and one of the supports ripped out of the deck. The cabin was in fair shape, but in need of some TLC (wood needed to be cleaned and oiled, cushions need to be replaced, etc.). Structurally, everything seemed decent, but she hadn't been used most of this year, and it showed. I checked some of the bilges, and found some fresh water in her - probably a combination of rain water from the hole in the bow and water from where the owner cleaned her earlier in the day (though I suspect mostly rain water). Not a lot, but some water. The windows looked like they could use to be removed and re-seated. The owner keeps her with the retractable keel up inside the boat, and he was able to crank it down and up again without a problem. A quick inspection of the cable suggested that it was in decent shape.

The S2 is a great boat, but it's in an inconvenient location, and I would either need to buy or rent a trailer, or sail her a good day or two to get her where I want her. The Catalina is basically where I want her. I'd still like to find a trailer, regardless of the boat, but having the Catalina where I'd likely keep her would make things a lot easier. I "just" need to find a marina at the NJ shore where I can work on her during the winter (or find an ever-elusive, inexpensive trailer for the 25).

Of course, I also haven't given up on the idea of finding a Com-Pac, Diller Schwill, West Wight Potter, or other such 15-16' with a microcabin. But those are VERY hard to find. I had a lead on a 16 DS, but Irene came on the weekend I was supposed to see the boat, and then the owner sold it before I could get there. So, now I'm in this weird holding pattern while we figure out what to do. The added room and stability of the 25 would be really nice. My wife is hesitant because of the boat's "condition" and wants us to find someone in the area to take a look at her, but doesn't want to pay $400-500 for a "formal" inspection. And, of course, there's a 23.5' Hunter about an hour north of here with a good engine, and a good trailer that's arguably within my price range, but I haven't seen her yet. And...

 

[Fly_H23]

Take your time, look at lots of boats before buying. We bought a 87 model Hunter 23. It's big enough for 2 adults and 2 children and easy to transport. We tow with a 1/2 ton pickup. The larger boats you mentioned might need a 3/4 ton to safely tow. Our first time launching took 1.5 hours total. I expect with practice less than an hour. If you can get a slip, you'll have more time to sail and we find much more often.

 

[Sumner]

Have you checked to see how much a trailer is going to cost. Do you weld or have the tools and ability to adapt a trailer to fit a boat it wasn't designed for.? If not you could be in at least $2000 to $3000 for even a used trailer and trying to convert it. Then how do you do that without getting the boat out of the water and a place to do it. Have you priced marinas in NJ. This could also be an on going expense that might be more than you thought you would have.

I don't think I would ever consider a trailerable boat that didn't have a trailer with it or one specifically made for it that I could buy at the same time. You might not want a trailer, but the next owner might and without one the boat might be very hard to sell.

Do you want to tell us what kind of budget you are working under? There are a lot of boats out there that don't really need that much work to put them in the water. That Cat 25 doesn't sound like one of them. It also looks to be over 4500 lbs. and that is without a trailer, quite a bit pass the towing capacity of your current vehicle.

Sorry if you have all of this covered, just a couple things to consider,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

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[JimGo]

Sum,
It never hurts to hear these things again! I don't have a trailer, and that's been one of the big "down" sides to the Catalina. She'd be pretty far away if I kept her at a marina local to her current position, so I know I'd need a trailer. At 4500 lbs (not including trailer weight), though, you are correct, she's too heavy for my current SUV and I'd have to rent something to help move her. She's still pretty tempting, but the more I think about it, the less inclined I am to go in that direction.

Now, the S2, on the other hand, that's still a SWEET boat. I'd have to find a trailer for it, too, and that's still a problem. I'm guessing that a trailer for a 22 would be a lot easier to find than for a 25, but I could be wrong there (too).

My budget? As cheap as possible. This is our first boat, and the only way I've gotten my wife to 'approve' the expense is by promising I'd keep the cost under $2000, and preferably as low as possible. For that money, neither of us are expecting a beautiful boat. But we'd really like something that is safe on the water, and that gives us and our boys a chance to see how often we'll actually use the boat.

What I'd REALLY like is to find a "free" 15-16' that has a small cabin (like a diller schwill, com-pac, west wight potter, etc.) that I could keep at the local lake and go out on after work, and then buy the S2 or a Hunter 23.5 to keep on a trailer (but set up) at the shore. That would be a 'best of both worlds' option, but I'm not sure it's realistic, especially given my price range. Of course, then there's winter storage for two boats, registration and insurance for the two boats, etc.

 

[sailcruiser]

They are out there but it's a right place at he right time kind of scenario. A survey generally in my area is $14-$16/linear foot and less for uncomplicated boats. (ie outboard and limited systems). It would be worth looking up a surveyor and making a phone call to know the actual cost. Maybe choose the S2 as an example. I bought my first boat and wished I coughed up the few bucks for a surveyor later. It wasn't a high dollar boat but it carried hidden expenses. It sounds like you have a favorite...I understand the S2 draw being I just bought one. A friend of mine is selling a 26' for a great price but it's above your 2k budget. There are manufacturer specific forums at least for S2, Hunter and Catalina around here. I personally wouldn't want to rig a boat often with little ones. Too much going on. Hope this helps a bit! SC

 

[MrUnix]

I'm sure you probably have already run across this, but here is a Hunter 23 in your neck of the woods for under $2K: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/2581192116.html

Based on the description, sounds like a great deal.. all you would need is a couple hundred for a small kicker and you are ready to go. You generally won't find stuff like a depth finder, battery charger or roller furling jib in this price range, and it's already setup with a winch system for raising the mast, which is a big plus.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[sailcruiser]

I'm sure you probably have already run across this, but here is a Hunter 23 in your neck of the woods for under $2K: http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/boa/2581192116.html

Based on the description, sounds like a great deal.. all you would need is a couple hundred for a small kicker and you are ready to go. You generally won't find stuff like a depth finder, battery charger or roller furling jib in this price range, and it's already setup with a winch system for raising the mast, which is a big plus.

Cheers,
Brad

I agree on a good deal but I think the suggestion of 5 hp may be overkill. At 2400lbs displacement it just seems nuts. For contrast my 7000 lb (loaded) boat was at hull speed with 8hp at half throttle. JMHO SC

 

[MrUnix]

I agree on a good deal but I think the suggestion of 5 hp may be overkill. At 2400lbs displacement it just seems nuts. For contrast my 7000 lb (loaded) boat was at hull speed with 8hp at half throttle. JMHO SC

I believe that recommendation was directly from Hunter.. the H23 came equipped with a 5HP 2 stroke from the factory. Depending on your location and water conditions, it may or may not be ideal. For example, I believe Fly ditched his 9.9 and got an electric trolling motor YMMV.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[Merlin Clark]

JimGo,
I've never been around S2's but seeing the underwater profile (fixed keel with board and cut away forefoot) and the 1,100 lb ballast I think the is a very good sailing boat. Of course I like it, it's very similar to the profile on my boat! LOL!
With 2 foot draft and 3k displacement it's still very trailerable.
If the S2 is in good shape and has been cared for and the C25 not so much, I'd go for the S2. A neglected boat may have hidden and not- so- pleasent surprises. And, if you can swing it, buying a boat that you can use right off and with confidence would be a big advantage over even a moderate fixer upper.

 

[JimGo]

SailCruiser,which S2 did you purchase? Where is your buddy's boat, and what's his price (out of curiosity)?

Thanks for the link to the Hunter. It was on my list of boats to visit, but the weather is NOT cooperating. I hope to make it there soon!

If I could find a trailer for the S2 at $400-600, I'd probably just pull the trigger on her and be done with it (after a more thorough inspection and a test sail, if the owner will let me).

 

[sailcruiser]

Hi JimGo, he's on Lake Erie in Northeast Ohio (in between Cleveland and Erie PA). He has the 26 which I believe is an 8.x (?) I can't recall. It's in beautiful shape and he's done a lot of work on it. It has an inboard which I prefer to an outboard myself but it's not always practical for your goals. I haven't asked him recently but last I saw it was somewhere between $5000-5500. It was stored indoors before he bought it so it was very clean. Had I been in the market for that size I'd have bought it but we went up significantly to the 11.0a from a prior Bristol 24 which is a very heavy under canvased (sail area) boat that is extremely forgiving. I would have suggested this as a first boat if you were planning to keep one in the water but it's not a trailer sailor weighing in at close to 6000 lbs dry. SC