Confusion - Hunter vs. Rhodes vs. S2

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JimGo

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Jun 30, 2011
55
None yet None yet None yet
I'm relatively new to sailing (taken a few lessons, gone out single-handed several times in a 14' rental, and did some sailing years ago in a 19), but really enjoy it a lot. Enough, in fact, that I'm very seriously considering purchasing a boat. My wife seems to enjoy being out on the water too (as do our kids, ages 5 and 3), though she's not as convinced that we need a boat. So, I'm trying to find something that will fit our needs/desires and budget, and that's been an interesting task.

A little about us: we live in the Philadelphia suburbs, about 20 minutes from Peace Valley Park and about 45 minutes from Lake Nockamixon. We're also about 45 minutes from the Delaware River (both North and South of Philadelphia), and about 2 hours (with moderate traffic) from the New Jersey shore, including Ocean City, Stone Harbor, Avalon, etc. Peace Valley is where my wife and I took lessons, and although the lake is small, we like it. It's never too busy, and the people seem nice. Peace Valley won't allow boats bigger than 16'. Lake Nockamixon does allow larger boats, as does (obviously) the Delaware and shore. We currently own a 2005 Honda Pilot (though we're starting to think it may be time to update that vehicle), which will have a towing capacity of 3500 lbs once I get the appropriate transmission cooler and install it. One last bit of background info: my in-laws have a condo in Avalon, NJ, and they (and we) hope that we'll be using it fairly often next season. Oh yeah, sorry, one other bit of background: my boys and wife have all insisted that the boat MUST have a cabin. It can be SMALL, but it must have a cabin.

After weeks of scouring the Internet, it looks like we may be netting out with a Rhodes 22 or a Hunter 23. I've seen other Rhodes 22's and one Hunter 23, and both seem like well designed boats. There are two different Hunter 23's for sale in our region (both 1986 vintage), and both look to be in decent shape and are within (or close to) our budget. The Rhodes is a 1979, and does not have the in-mast furling system. There's also an S2 6.8 for sale nearby (not sure of the year). The Rhodes and Hunters are on trailers, the S2 is not. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that all three boats are in roughly comparable condition and are roughly the same price, can anyone offer any recommendations for a family-friendly boat that's sailable single handed (since my wife will likely be distracted by our kids)? We'll probably mostly be day-sailing, with the occasional overnight "camping" experience for me and the boys (though that will mostly be dockside camping). I'd like something that COULD be taken out in the ocean occasionally, though that may not wind up being the most frequent of our use cases. I suspect either Lake Nockamixon or the Delaware River will be her primary home, though I may be wrong!

I've read reviews on all of these boats, and they all seem to have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm not seeing that any one of them is really a "better" boat than the others. But if I'm missing something, your feedback would be appreciated!
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,004
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
In my opinion, get a small boat (West Wight Potter 15' on a trailer) so you can sail close to home @ the 20-min drive. It'll be less hassle to go a short distance to sail than a long one; you'll do more of it. You might outgrow that boat in a year or two and want to move up. By then you'll know what you need in terms of space and other things, plus you might be able to sell the WWP at good resale. If you go long now, the chances are better that you'll under utilize the boat and conclude sailing is a lot of effort for the cost, than outgrow it and want to move up, etc. In my opinion, a Rhodes will not be a good beginner's boat for family sailing with small children unless (maybe) you've taken lessons in one.
 

JimGo

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Jun 30, 2011
55
None yet None yet None yet
Thanks for the quick reply! Actually, the smaller boat is another set of options we're exploring. There are two Diller Schwill 16's nearby that look promising. After having been on the 14 from our lessons and then in a 22' Rhodes, 23' Hunter, and 25' Catalina, my wife seems to be favoring those with larger cabins, that's why I focused this particular question the way I did. But we haven't given up on the 15/16's. I mean, I could always break something in that size range down and take it to the shore with us pretty easily, which would give us some real flexibility. My big concern there, though, is that we'll wind up at the shore enough that I don't get to sail her on the weekends because trailering her back and forth is too much of a hassle.

Again, the feedback is appreciated!
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,004
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
There are a lot of Catalina 22's around w/retractable keels so they are easy to trailer. I personally don't like them much b/c I don't find them fun to sail. But it's a good family day-sailer/over-nighter that's not expensive, and has space below.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,007
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Pick the one that makes your heart beat faster. Don't be too analytical about it... because you'll always find some aspect you missed or constantly compare features to other boats..... but worst of all you will spend your time justifying your decision to everyone who never asked. I know this sounds unlike any advice you're expecting here, but you must find the boat beautiful and atrractive to you .... Truthfully, at your stage of the game there is very little difference between any boat you choose that will affect your enjoyment..... so why not pick the one that turns you on, instead of the one that has good manners.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,810
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Go

Go to the lake or area that you want sail at and have a picknick with your family spending the day and see what other people are sailing.
I prefer the boat with some protection and not too small for your family,I starting out very small with my family and wanted some thing bigger very fast.
A 23 Hunter or 25 catalina with trailer sounds good and maybe rent that size for the first few times and see how your family likes sailing before buying.
Nick
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,777
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Be realistic, Joe's right. So is Nick's first paragraph. I trailered a C22, it's doable, but is a lot of work. I also had a C25. Trailering that boat is a LOT of work, and for reasons already expressed, it'll be a PITA for your first boat. I don't think you should go there, yet, although the cabin is very nice. A C25, IMHO, is a boat you put in the water and leave it there, maybe trailering it home at the end of the season.

The C22 sounds like a good solution to your issues if your car can handle it. www.catalina22.org.

This being the long weekend, you'll get more replies on Tuesday.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
How does the NJ shore factor in? Are you on a bay there, some protected water? Because you will have very few opportunities for sailing a 22/23 in the Atlantic.

The C-22 and H-22 are a pain if you trailer them. I mention the Hunter 22 because it is also a swing keel. I had a C22 at the dock. My friend's H22 had better lines and a nicer interior. Either one will be a lot more fun if left in the water. Or maybe you can leave it rigged on the trailer at a marina and "dry sail" it. This is where you show up and back it in and go sailing. Even my little Highlander is in a slip.
 
Nov 28, 2009
495
Catalina 30 St. Croix
Get a boat that is trailable. Large enough for the 4 of you and can camp out when wanted.
Find a marina where you can keep it out of the water fully rigged. The car updating can then come later. More time on the water, less time hauling the boat back and forth.
A Hunter 23 with it's wing keel make for a shallow draft boat that is very stable. The earlier models with swing keel sit lower on a trailer and easier to launch.
 
Dec 4, 2010
18
hunter 31 tampa area
Trailering and rigging each time will soon take all the excitement out of life. If the kids are going please consider them too. I took mine with me on a 26 when they were small and they were all over the place. Healing is a new experience for them and they did not like it. I am a safety freak and readily admit it particularly with the children. They are in their 30's now but still talk of the sails. Flotation, stability, and where to sail. I always really analyzed the course so there were no surprises and lots of options.

My wife did not always want to go so if I had to rig the boat I have no idea what I would have done to entertain the kids whilst I was working on it. Honestly, I would recommend renting one as you go for awhile and see how the family responds. Otherwise you may be sailing single handed while your wife babysits. Not a good float plan, trust me. Final thought is organizing kids in an emergency is like herding cats.

In the end I walked my daughter down the aisle last year. Bought my Hunter 3 weeks later and now live aboard. It was worth the wait. :)
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,004
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
We'll those are the options, I guess. Get a large (comfortable) tralierable boat (e.g., Cat 25), and it becomes too much work to rig and de-rig often & you can't do it alone, so you need a place to keep it in or near the water during the sailing season. That means a slip with a monthly payment along with a larger towing vehicle, perhaps. Plus, it's far from home. Remember, you'll have to go to where ever it is to work on it/maintain it, often. Get a small trailerable boat that's comparatively easy to rig and de-rig, that you can use close to home or far away, and that does not need a slip, but is not as comfortable for the whole family, and maybe you get more sailing in per unit of effort and dollar. Renting/chartering would be an OK plan in the short run, but I don't if the kids would fit as easily into that equation as the ownership one.

And there's one axiom of the sailing/boaters world that might apply here: "Big boat, big problems; small boat, small problems."
 
Jul 13, 2010
1,097
Precision 23 Perry Hall,Baltimore County
I agree that with small kids a cabin and a porta-potty are must haves. The boats you look at at all goood, but don`t rule out a Precision if you come across one. Wife and I love our P18 (First boat, second season) although it would be cramped for 2adults,2kids the weekend. Easily rigged and trailered,still in production,parts available. Also available in 21 &23 ft. length. I also agree with leaving rigged on trailer if possible that made a HUGE difference in our sailing, evenings after work is most common use now. David
 
Mar 2, 2011
489
Compac 14 Charleston, SC
Look at this another way, if you can find a bigger boat with a slip maybe you won't need a newer tow vehicle and worry about launching/retrieving so much. We bought an 87 Hunter 23, keep her in a slip all season and what we save on gas towing it 170 miles each weekend offsets the slip fees enough to justify it. We get to sail more often and no stress launching and towing it.


Good luck!
 
Dec 23, 2008
771
Catalina 22 Central Penna.
Size is the problem

Purchasing a sailboat with a trailer any size is the way to go. With a trailer any size, even in the 27 to 30 foot size becomes more desirable than a boat without a trailer. The market area now is everywhere with a trailer because of its portability.

The purchase cost can be almost an investment, if you purchase a trailerable in reasonable condition at the going market value, that value will still be there say 3 to 5 years from now, your only cost will be maintenance and equipment you add over the years.

After being around all of the boats you see in the attached photo taken at a small lake in west central Pennsylvania for 20 years I can say that purchase the boat that others have said is the boat that feel right and has the most stuff. As said, additions do not add dollor value to the boat upon resale, with maintenance the boat will hold its value.

Size, now is the problem, a 22 foot boat with lots of time and practice still means a minimum of 2.5 hours in the parking lot each time you trailer it. To come close to this time that also means 2 men, not a man and a women or a young teenager. Anything less than 2 men means more time attaching and handling more mast raising equipment on a 22 foot or larger boat.

I would say a 25% savings or more in parking lot time can be had with a 19 to 21 foot boat over a 22 footer and 1.5 men could handle it.

I have two friends 20 minutes from the lake, one with a baby started on a 19, then a 23, 25, 27 and now a 34, 3.5 hours away, enjoys every moment of it, the baby will be driving in 1.5 years. The other fellow single hands, went from a 21 to a 22 and then a 27 footer 3.5 hours away and is now back to the lake on a 21 and is talking of going to a 16.

Your future of sail comes down to size.
 

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Jul 27, 2011
5,004
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
My 1st boat was a Hotfoot-20 that we kept rigged (i.e., mast up) on a trailer in a lot very close to the launch ramp. Even with that, it took my boat partner (a strong guy) and me at least 30 min (once there) to get underway, under sail or on the outboard. You still have to hook it up to the towing vehicle, get it to the ramp, launch it, tie it off, park the trailer and the vehicle, and then hoof it back to the launch pier. And there always seem to be others waiting around for you get done and get off the launch pier, so there is pressure. Then there is the outboard, if you have one, to get you going (unless you try to sail to and from the launch pier). Of course, that is much better than driving it from home and having to put up the mast too. I don't know your strength or height, but the mast of a 20' boat was about all I could muster up by myself (not too tall) and hold up while the wife or partner made fast the shrouds. Smaller is lighter and easier when it comes to that.
 
Mar 2, 2011
489
Compac 14 Charleston, SC
Another easy to trailer and set up boat with a cabin is a Hunter 216. It's light enough for your existing vehicle, roomy cockpit and just enough cabin to say it has one.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
My vote

If the boat is over 20 feet it will be a work out to put the mast up by yourself with your Wife watching two small children. Best bet is to find a local Yacht Club that has a mooring field and a launch to run you out to your boat. You will likely be surprised to find out how reasonable the rates are. My club is $675/year and that includes launch service and a chit for $125 in the pub. It is well worth it to avoid the hassle of rigging your boat and towing it every time.

Barring that, some of the boats you are looking at have a pretty big stick (mast) to deal with. O'days tend to have roomy cabins and shorter masts than similar boats.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/cgi...ault&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=14444&mh=1

A Macgregor is also a good choice if you want a larger boat but need a light mast for rigging. The mast diameter is smaller and the rig is lighter, but as its many proponents will tell you, a Mac is a good boat.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
.....Size, now is the problem, a 22 foot boat with lots of time and practice still means a minimum of 2.5 hours in the parking lot each time you trailer it. To come close to this time that also means 2 men, not a man and a women or a young teenager. Anything less than 2 men means more time attaching and handling more mast raising equipment on a 22 foot or larger boat.

I would say a 25% savings or more in parking lot time can be had with a 19 to 21 foot boat over a 22 footer and 1.5 men could handle it....
I think that I'd have to take exception with the above :). A number of people that have boats like ours are on the water in 30-45 minutes and that includes using the...



... mast raising system.

Ruth and I always stay out multiple days so getting in the water and packing is always much longer than 30-45 minutes, but I've done that easy at home on the trailer by myself.

If you don't load the boat down like we have it comes in at under 3000 lbs for the trailer/boat combo and launches in....



... very shallow water and at about any ramp or even without one like above as it only takes 15 inches of water and sits very low on the trailer with the swing centerboard.

About the only negative is that it is a little more tender with the water ballast, but if you are comfortable with12-18 degrees of heel it will become very stable at that point.

So you have a boat with a lot of interior and cockpit space that launches and tows like a small boat with the water ballast,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

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