Confusion - Hunter vs. Rhodes vs. S2

[arknoah]

A well seasoned sailor told me early on that I should buy what I'll actually use the most and then save a few bucks for the day when I might charter the bigger boat I'd lusted after.

This sentiment (or a similar one) was expressed early in the thread. If possible, get the boat that will get you out on the water the most, because then you'll learn more and know that whatever the boat cost you that you're getting your money's worth. Best of luck -- we're all rootin' for ya'!

 

[Sumner]

....My budget? As cheap as possible. This is our first boat, and the only way I've gotten my wife to 'approve' the expense is by promising I'd keep the cost under $2000, and preferably as low as possible. For that money, neither of us are expecting a beautiful boat. But we'd really like something that is safe on the water, and that gives us and our boys a chance to see how often we'll actually use the boat.....

Since you are still looking I'll throw in another plug for a Classic Mac S or D. A little higher than the $2000 that you threw out earlier, but I can't see as how you were going to be under that with any of the other boats you mentioned by the time you bought trailers, motors and other items to get them sailing and especially when you started to talk about slip fees.

I've seen a few D's in the $3000-$4000 range and a few S's in the $5-6,000 range that were ready to sail. The couple thousand dollar difference in what you quoted above would be easily made up in one year of slip fees and you wouldn't be tied to one area.

They have a lot of interior room inside, about the largest rear berth of any trailerable boat and a large cockpit. With the water ballast they are under 2000 lb., about 3,000 lb total for the trailer/boat. About as easy to launch as anything out there. You can be on the water in 45 min. or so and no need to tune the rig after setup. Will sail in 15 inches of water and you can...

...beach them if you so desire. I prefer the S with the swing keel as it is more foregiving if you run aground, but there are tons of D's with a dagger board sailing everywhere and they will also sail in 15 inches of water with the board up. The D is a little faster and they are both fast 26 foot boats with PHRF's in the 210 to 220 range and will point very high into the wind and will sail in very light wind also.

We love ours and had never sailed before, but it has allowed us to sail here in Utah, Colo, Idaho, Canada and Florida. We have been out on her at up to 2 months and the last trip was over 400 miles down the west coast of Florida over to the Keys and back up south of Miami. There are a lot of these boats sailing off both coasts, the Gulf and of course all over inland.

Spend a little time on the Mac Board on here...

http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/forumdisplay.php?f=68

.. and the other 2 ...

http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/macgregor/index.cgi

http://www.macgregor26x.com/forum/index.php

... if you have questions or want to know more about them and if you haven't yet look at the video TB posted....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7076785769434785211

These boats are very easy to modify to fit your personal needs. We bought an Endeavour last spring, but will keep and probably have the Mac way past when the Endeavour has moved on to someone else. It has been perfect for our needs.

No matter what you get good luck and I wouldn't wait until next spring when everyone is thinking about going back out. Winter is a good time to buy if you are looking for a little better bargain,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[JimGo]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[JimGo]

Sumner, I have been reading your web site, and I'm impressed with all that you've done to your Mac! I've always found the 25's interesting. A very neat cross between a power boat and a sailboat. As I understand it, it's not a fantabulous power boat, nor is it a fantabulous sailboat, but certainly adequate at both for my needs. The idea of being able to tow my kids (or have them waterski) behind the boat is certainly appealing! My big concern is the nature of the water in which I'll likely be sailing. At this point, I think we're leaning toward keeping the boat in the water, or on a trailer next to the water, and probably at the shore. In our area of NJ, that means that we'll likely be heading out to the ocean fairly quickly, and the seas in this area can be interesting. I have some concerns about many of these boats out in the ocean - really, the Irwin and the Ericson are the only ones whose mass might help tame things enough to help my wife feel less motion sick. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't expect sailing an Erison or Irwin in the ocean to be like sailing on a lake, but where I can, I'd like to take my wife's comfort into account.

 

[JimGo]

Soling, your point about bigger not always being better is a very good one. I'm not looking for anything bigger than about a 25, and realistically "even" a 22-23 will be just fine. We're approaching this as our first boat, to test out how often we'll use her, just how much we, as a family, want to sail, etc. So for now, we're going inexpensive, and we're not going TOO big. We know we just don't NEED it right now. If it turns out that we love boating, we'll figure out what our next option(s) are. If we hate it, we should be able to get rid of the boat fairly easily (not a lot invested in it). And if we're somewhere in the middle, one of these boats should be just about fine.

 

[Sumner]

Sumner, I have been reading your web site, and I'm impressed with all that you've done to your Mac! I've always found the 25's interesting. A very neat cross between a power boat and a sailboat. As I understand it, it's not a fantabulous power boat, nor is it a fantabulous sailboat, but certainly adequate at both for my needs....

Actually you don't have it quite right, but don't feel bad as this comes up all the time on the internet :cry:. MacGregor produced swing keel boats with the ballast weight in the keel until the mid 80's with the Mac 25 footer being the last.

Then he went to 26 foot boats with water ballast. The first being the MacGregor 26 D. It has a dagger board. It is a displacement boat and is like almost any other boat in that you are wasting your time putting an outboard over 10 HP on it as it will only go about 7 knots, which is hull speed.

Then in '90 he made a few changes and went to the 26 S which is what we have. Water ballast, but with a swing centerboard. Other than that about the same as the D. It is also a displacement boat like other sailboats with a max speed of about 7 knots also.

The D and S are called the classics.

Then in '95 he discontinued the S and went to the X which along with the present M are motor/sailors and are what you are thinking we have. The X and M are planning hulls and will take motor over 50 HP. Lots of people hate them, but not the owners. I can see where they have filled a market that has allowed MacGregor to still be in the business of making boats where lots of other manufactures have gone by the wayside. I don't want an X or M, but can see why some people do. By the way MacGregor with his Macs and Ventures has made more trailer sailboats than anyone as far as I know. Also the X and M have been copied by Hunter.

Of course the final choice has to be made by you and your wife. I'm having a hard time figuring the $2000 budget, but then slip fees that could go as high as $5000 a year. If you keep the boat on a trailer it will be cheaper, but even a mast up yard is going to cost. I looked at the Irwin, but can't imagine getting it off the trailer and up and sailing in 45 minutes. I would think at 6000 lbs. you would even need a substantial vehicle just to get it up the ramp into a storage yard.

It looks like you have lots of protected areas to sail and maybe taking advantage of those for the first year or two might be a better plan vs. trying to go out on the ocean at first. I understand wanting the wife to feel safe and is one reason we bought the Endeavour. I wanted Ruth to feel as secure as possible as we want to be out on open water more than we have in the past.

The best of luck and you can still get sick on a big boat, I almost got sick on an aircraft carrier when I was in the Navy and others did , so far I haven't on the Mac, but Ruth did once. I know my day will come :cry::cry:,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

 

[JimGo]

Sumner, thanks for the info on the Mac's! Very helpful!

 

[JimGo]

OK, so, for the update. I visited 4 boats today: Catalina 25, Ericson 25, RK2 22, and a Seafarer 24. The Ericson's owner couldn't meet me (turned out he was in a car accident last night, thankfully he's OK). She's certainly showing her age, though she's not terrible by any stretch. The cockpit was surprisingly small, though. To the point where I wasn't sure that all 4 of us would fit. The KR2 is a no. She's in crappy shape. The Seafarer is in good shape. Doesn't need any "real" work, just cosmetics to work for my family (i.e., cushions, curtains, etc. - nothing REALLY major). The Catalina is just about turn-key. I've made an offer on the Catalina. Now I'm just waiting - please keep your fingers crossed for me!!!

 

[JimGo]

As I just posted on another thread, the seller contacted me earlier today and said he WOULD take my offer, BUT he wants to wait to see if the other guy who came out this weekend would make an offer. I told him I needed to know by Thursday evening so I could get the money order/cashier's check in time to go out there Saturday, and he agreed. I don't think it's an unreasonable request - my offer was low, but it's what i can afford - and if he can sell it for more, I can't blame him. But I SURE hope the other guy doesn't come back with an offer!

So, now I'm trying to figure out how to get the boat from the Lavalette area of NJ down to Ocean City, NJ. The obvious answer is to sail her there, and that's the general plan. But if I got the ICW, that's going to be mostly under power. The tide runs against me for a good bit of the trip, too this weekend, so the 60 mile trip may wind up taking me almost 2 days if I head out via the ICW. I'll also have 4 or 5 bridges to contend with on that trip, given the roughly 33' height above the waterline for the mast. I'm not experienced enough yet to try stepping the mast while underway, so I'll have to work with the bridge operators (still have to figure out how to know what channel they monitor).

The other option is to sail out Barnegat Bay either at the light or further south, then make the trip past Atlantic City and Brigantine by way of the ocean. My biggest fear is the inlet there at Ocean City; I recall it being a little rough some days when we were in our power boat when I was a kid. But the ocean route will shave off a good bit of the twists and turns of the ICW, and should allow me to travel more under sail, which might just mean a faster overall trip. I'd avoid part of the tidal current issue while out there, too, so that would be good.

It's certainly a logistical issue, but not one that can't be overcome. Hopefully the weather will be nice, and the other guy won't place a higher offer!

 

[Sumner]

I'm relatively new to sailing (taken a few lessons, gone out single-handed several times in a 14' rental, and did some sailing years ago in a 19), but really enjoy it a lot....

Considering the above and if you have no time in this boat I'd go the ICW, but question the wisdom of doing this trip by yourself if you have never been over the route, the boat and equipment is new to you, do you totally trust the motor, etc..

Have you been out in the boat for a sea trial and seen that all the systems work and that you are comfortable with them for a trip of possibly two days.

Does it have anchoring gear that is good. Would you stay at a marina at night? Will you be able to dock the boat there?

You need charts for sure and it would be really good to have at least a handheld GPS with waypoints on it to keep you in the ICW if you have any doubts on following the markers.

When we bought our Endeavour we were faced with something similar. We went out for a short sea trial, so I felt confident about the diesel, but I sill put a fresh filter on it. We put up the sails on the sea trial for a short time. The boat is rigged just like our smaller Mac so we felt that should the diesel fail we had a pretty good chance of sailing her somewhere.

It had good anchors, but still we bought an additional one, a Manson Supreme. You need the anchor for more than just staying on the hook overnight. If you had the engine quit on you on the ICW, under a bridge or about any place else you need to be able to deploy one quickly.

We were moving her about 70 miles from Ft. Myers Beach up inside of Charlotte Harbor and could of gone almost the whole way inside, part of it the ICE, or we could of gone up the outside and cut in at Boca Granda. We wrestled with the decision for a couple days while preparing the boat for the trip and finally decided on the inside as being the safer decision for us.

We went that route and ran aground for about 5 minutes on the way at the Miserable mile, but got off. We did have tow insurance and I would for sure suggest that you get the same before the trip.

We had also been over the same route before, so knew it pretty well and had the whole route in the chartplotter along with paper charts.

I don't want to sound too negative, but if you are going to do this I suggest trying to find someone who has made that trip before to go with you. If you had a problem and had to get towed with no insurance you might spend a lot of money. Read the thread on tow insurance on the main board.

Did you give up on getting a boat with a trailer? Is that an option?

Good luck on getting the boat and making the move,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links