Warren, it may depend on your rig. On a 80's model with a high aspect ratio main it is quite easy but not so much on the newer B&R rigged Hunters with a large roach main. It basically involves centering the boom and going up to the mast and pulling down on the sail. Once you get it down 1/3 then the rest usually drops. It helps to have an extra pair of hands on the tiller to keep pressure of the sail.
Chicken Jibe
- Thread starter Don Guillette
- Start date
Sometimes
When I'm out with guests who know little about sailing, I will do a chicken jibe in anything over maybe 12 knots. I can't get to the traveller myself and they will most certainly blow centering and releasing the main in a controlled fashion.
When I'm out with guests who know little about sailing, I will do a chicken jibe in anything over maybe 12 knots. I can't get to the traveller myself and they will most certainly blow centering and releasing the main in a controlled fashion.
I've used a "chicken jibe" in mild winds to make a comfortable course change when I have less experienced people on board. It's really more like tacking from one broad reach to another, which I can easily single-hand, or have inexperienced people participating, which is a big plus on my boat. Most of the time I just take the jibe, using control.
I would not chicken jibe in heavy weather. Again think tacking from a broad reach. In heavy wind the boat loads up a LOT when you point higher. This is especially true when the waves are running. Boat motion can really accelerate when bouncing through a turn. Just take the jibe with control. As others have pointed out, centering the boom early is the key. Also making the turn slowly and in control.
I'm a bit of a history buff, and have only run across the term of wearing ship in the context of an alternative to tacking.
I would not chicken jibe in heavy weather. Again think tacking from a broad reach. In heavy wind the boat loads up a LOT when you point higher. This is especially true when the waves are running. Boat motion can really accelerate when bouncing through a turn. Just take the jibe with control. As others have pointed out, centering the boom early is the key. Also making the turn slowly and in control.
I'm a bit of a history buff, and have only run across the term of wearing ship in the context of an alternative to tacking.
Fellow sailors, The subject of changing coarse downwind brings back memories, going back to the late 1940s, when I was a teenager and a relatively new sailor (but I thought I had a lot of experience!) But I did have safety in mind I thought. Here was the situation: The boat was an E (28' inland scow.) Rigging was running back stays and bilge boards. The destination: down wind to get to the starting line and pick up my crew at the yacht club. Problem getting there. I talked three heavy-weights to go to the yacht club. They didn't know anything about sailing (I guess that's why they went with me.) Knowing that they could not handle any lines, I set up the boat withy both bilge boards down a little for stability (?) Where we started from it was a single downwind broad reach. No sweat! Three quarters of the way there the wind changed and freshened. We had to jibe or chicken jibe. With the crew I had jibing was out of the question. When we got through the wind to the other tack the boat took off (literally). You see we had both bilge boards down a little but enough to act as a hydroplane, so 24' of that scow went airborn. We were fortunate that waves were not a factor. You should have seen the startled look on the speed boats that we passed. So doing a chicken jibe was the only way to go with an inexperienced crew.
When I'm going downwind I have a spinnaker up.
Chicken jibes are out of the question.
The tricks to controlling the main in breeze are:
Rate and degree of turn, and how to get the main over.
DON'T OVER TURN!
In most cases we leave the main to leeward till the boat is almost DDW. If racing with good crew we will throw it over via the mainsheet and then turm up a few degrees.
If shorthanded or with lesser crew we will crank the sheet in to reverse weathervane the main into the wind, then let it out in a controlled fashion as we turn up.
As stu says, with a headsail up you can focus only on the main until the jibe is done.
Chicken jibes are out of the question.
The tricks to controlling the main in breeze are:
Rate and degree of turn, and how to get the main over.
DON'T OVER TURN!
In most cases we leave the main to leeward till the boat is almost DDW. If racing with good crew we will throw it over via the mainsheet and then turm up a few degrees.
If shorthanded or with lesser crew we will crank the sheet in to reverse weathervane the main into the wind, then let it out in a controlled fashion as we turn up.
As stu says, with a headsail up you can focus only on the main until the jibe is done.
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The last two times I did a chicken jibe was in the Bavaria while sailing in the East Santa Barbara Channel in 23+ knots of wind, seas 4 to 6 ft, and with the headsail furled. A look at my avatar (same as pic attached) shows the conditions of the more recent one last year off Santa Cruz Island. My wife and I only aboard; she helming the boat. We do this quickly so the boat maintains its way on as we come about from the broad reach. However, I also ease the mainsheet some while coming about to keep the boat from healing too hard or "going ballastic." Obviously, you do not want to end up in irons, ESPECIALLY with a fully-battened mainsail, which can result in "throwing a batten" from the force of the sail snapping. [In fully-battened mainsails, the battens are longer than the length between the luff and the leach.] Once through the eye, trim the main quickly to get the boat going again while it's still close to the wind; then ease as you return to the broad reach; redeploy the headsail if you're going to. There is nothing inherently dangerous in this manueuver IMHO. We've done many "by-the-book" controlled gybes on this boat, just the two of us, and we know how. [I think I've mentioned somewhere in this forum that I've been a certified ASA keel boat instructor]. However, in this situation, in my estimation, the chicken jibe was the better maneuver for us!!
Also, in my experience, setting up for a controlled gybe in "heavy" wind (> 20 kt) presents its own issues. It takes some degree of hard cranking to get the boom on or near centerline in preparation for the gybe. Reaching low or running with the boom sheeted hard amidships in high wind hinders full steering control of the boat. A big sea at the wrong time during that interval could cause real trouble
. If you're gonna do it that way, then be quick about it!
Attached photo: trim of the Bavaria just prior to reaching the gybe position off Cavern Point, Santa Cruz Island; July 2014.
The last two times I did a chicken jibe was in the Bavaria while sailing in the East Santa Barbara Channel in 23+ knots of wind, seas 4 to 6 ft, and with the headsail furled. A look at my avatar (same as pic attached) shows the conditions of the more recent one last year off Santa Cruz Island. My wife and I only aboard; she helming the boat. We do this quickly so the boat maintains its way on as we come about from the broad reach. However, I also ease the mainsheet some while coming about to keep the boat from healing too hard or "going ballastic." Obviously, you do not want to end up in irons, ESPECIALLY with a fully-battened mainsail, which can result in "throwing a batten" from the force of the sail snapping. [In fully-battened mainsails, the battens are longer than the length between the luff and the leach.] Once through the eye, trim the main quickly to get the boat going again while it's still close to the wind; then ease as you return to the broad reach; redeploy the headsail if you're going to. There is nothing inherently dangerous in this manueuver IMHO. We've done many "by-the-book" controlled gybes on this boat, just the two of us, and we know how. [I think I've mentioned somewhere in this forum that I've been a certified ASA keel boat instructor]. However, in this situation, in my estimation, the chicken jibe was the better maneuver for us!!
Also, in my experience, setting up for a controlled gybe in "heavy" wind (> 20 kt) presents its own issues. It takes some degree of hard cranking to get the boom on or near centerline in preparation for the gybe. Reaching low or running with the boom sheeted hard amidships in high wind hinders full steering control of the boat. A big sea at the wrong time during that interval could cause real trouble
. If you're gonna do it that way, then be quick about it!Attached photo: trim of the Bavaria just prior to reaching the gybe position off Cavern Point, Santa Cruz Island; July 2014.
Attachments
There is also a nasty maneuver the British call the chicken-wing jibe.
This is caused during an controlled/uncontrolled jibe where slack in the vang (set to allow some twist) allows the boom to rise and the boom/sail catches on the backstay.
NOT FUN.
Check your vang before jibing.
This is caused during an controlled/uncontrolled jibe where slack in the vang (set to allow some twist) allows the boom to rise and the boom/sail catches on the backstay.
NOT FUN.
Check your vang before jibing.
Since a chicken jibe just consists of going from broad reach to beam reach to close reach, tacking and then bearing off again what makes it more hazardous then any of those manoeuvers, which we all do all the time?
Maybe its just a bit long winded.
Maybe its just a bit long winded.
John,Since a chicken jibe just consists of going from broad reach to beam reach to close reach, tacking and then bearing off again what makes it more hazardous then any of those manoeuvers, which we all do all the time?
Maybe its just a bit long winded.
No you are correct. The question was whether if people did a proper jibe or a chicken jibe, and in what conditions did they switch. Many people will have crew/breeze/seastate/daylight conditions where they will chicken it.
John, it depends on the conditions, as Jack said. From reply #3:
That's because at those wind speeds and boat speeds, the waves are built up and turning broadside to them creates way more havoc than a controlled jibe. The apparent wind increase when you go around is ASTOUNDING. And can be quite scary.
Sometimes. Try it in The Slot on July 23rd when it's blowing 28 kts. true, especially east of the R buoys where it shallows from 40-50 feet to less than 25, like between TI and the Berkeley Pier, serious waves there. At 1635.
Way different than if you're east of Angel Island on the way to Richmond in much flatter water with less wind.
Oh, a HUGELY important point.John, it depends on the conditions, as Jack said. From reply #3:
That's because at those wind speeds and boat speeds, the waves are built up and turning broadside to them creates way more havoc than a controlled jibe. The apparent wind increase when you go around is ASTOUNDING. And can be quite scary.
Sometimes. Try it in The Slot on July 23rd when it's blowing 28 kts. true. At 1635.
Way different than if you're east of Angel Island on the way to Richmond in much flatter water with less wind.
Apparent Wind Speed plays a huge part of the decision, and how fast your boat is going.
In 20 knots of breeze both our boats are doing 10 knots.
All else being equal, I would rather JIBE in 10 knots apparent wind that TACK in 25!
I like to use a slight change in course to facilitate bringing the boom into the center of the boat and then just a slow crossing of the wind before releasing the main sheet on the other side. I find a controlled jibe preferable to rounding the boat as wind forces will be lesser and the maneuver is quicker with less loss of speed and distance. Nevertheless if a change of course is required that favors a chicken jibe I execute it. I do not know if it is just me but after a long downwind run in a stiff breeze I just love to turn the boat around into the wind; it is the explosive change in wind speed, noise, movement and water spray that gets my adrenalin going.
That should not be an inhibiting factor. Consider: anyone needing to reef the main in a blow or drop it altogether would have to bring the boat up to weather irrespective of the point of sail at that time or the sea conditions; even if going DDW. Bringing the boat through the eye on a chicken jibe would be no worse than bringing it up to tack, or to douse, or to reef the mainsail. If a skipper cannot do that with confidence; then s/he should reconsider his/her preparedness to be out there in the first place, IMHO!
WADR, that doesn't pass muster.
The question was about jibing, NOT reefing.
Bringing the boat through the eye on a chicken jibe would be no worse than bringing it up to tack
Read Jack's excellent point in reply #31: All else being equal, I would rather JIBE in 10 knots apparent wind that TACK in 25!
And we have a Harken batt-car system on our boat. I can reef our main even sailing downwind if the wind isn't too heavy - I do it regularly in our Estuary on the way home, which is DDW for eight miles. If I had to reef in higher winds, I'd either head up and use our double line reefing system, or heave to and do so. And have done so, actually both, over the years.
It doesn't help to mix issues.
I'm not mixing issues. Although, I agree they may be mixed up a bit here. In case it's not clear--a "Chicken Jibe" IS a tack that is typically initiated from a broad reach instead of from a close-hauled course. So, we're talking about changing the side of the boat that the boom is on while reaching low or sailing DDW W/O jibing. That's the title of this thread. You and others have intimated that it's something that perhaps should be avoided. I say there's no reason to avoid doing it based on what's been offered so far b/c it's hardly more than part of a routine maneuver-- bringing the boat head-to-wind and/or (the bow) through the eye for whatever reason.
KG, I agree with you. The only difference is that some of us have stated that a cj is potentially more dangerous because of the reasons we have stated. And we all can agree that different wind strengths and sea states make that choice. One is NOT ALWAYS better than the other. That's all.
Your edit and quote of my last post included your own comments about the tack, not mine.
All both Jack & I are proposing is that in some cases it is more dangerous to cj than to jibe.
Your edit and quote of my last post included your own comments about the tack, not mine.
All both Jack & I are proposing is that in some cases it is more dangerous to cj than to jibe.
I learned about the "Chicken Jibe" many years ago racing a fractional, one-design sloop, a Hotfoot 20, in Tampa Bay, following the passage of cold fronts, where winds were gusty and often in the range of 20 to 25 kt. The Hotfoot 20 is a 1000 lb boat w/ a planing hull and lock down bulb keel set like a big dagger board. In my very first race (Tampa Bay Race Week), running (wing-on-wing) for the finish, the committee boat clocked a 40-kt gust. Not only were we too "chicken" to fly the kite (not a high wind one) at that time, there's no way in hell we would jibe the boom in those conditions (a big mainsail). Thus, my discovery of the "Chicken Jibe." So in my mind and experience, a "Chicken Jibe" is a tack that one makes from an off-the-wind point of sail b/c jibing itself is considered too dangerous, scary, or threatening to the rig. One could lose the mast if something got fouled up; so you're being a "chicken"-- and tack instead. NOT the other way around, where someone thinks it's more risky to tack the boat than to jibe it. So, I largely disagree. WADR-- a tack is almost always a safer maneuver than a jibe---after all, you don't hear the term "Chicken Tack."
I must agree with Mr. Jackson. Turning broadside to the wind to do a jibe lets you know very quickly that you are holding a "tiger by the tail". I much prefer sailing a 360 which allows me, when singlehanding, to take the maneuver of changing sides of the boat with the main one bite at a time.
Once again-- a "Chicken Jibe" is a tack--where the bow of the boat (not the stern) passes through the eye of the wind. It's a self-deprecating comic term that is used to make fun of one's own reluctance to jibe the boat in high-wind conditions!! You know--"I'd rather be a live chicken than a dead duck!"
KG, great story. I agree that that was a perfect example of when to use the maneuver.
Skippers, this is not an "Agree with Mr. J or Mr. KG" issue.
All we're trying to explain to those, and to the OP, is that different conditions and different boats warrant different actions.
For those who were not familiar with the term "cj" at least now you know and have another technique that could make your day a better one.
Heck, at least we're out there sailing.
Beats anything else I can think of (except boat maintenance so I CAN get out there!
)!:dance: