Buying a Hunter 23. No brakes advice

jssailem · Nov 25, 2022

I would suspect trailer brakes would be a sugar coated project for most trailer shops.

Just check around. You want to be sure before you become their Sugar Daddy.

jssailem · Nov 25, 2022

I do not have a definitive answer. Either way you bring in the trailer and drive away happy. It will likely include a controller in your truck cabin. They are a pretty common fix to trailers not designed for them.

Crazy Dave Condon · Nov 25, 2022

You need brakes on that trailer as the center of gravity is very high causing swaying. Now retired but I was the top dealer for that boat. Get brakes and if you have to move it without brakes, there are three suggestions. First do not go over 40 mph. Secondly stay far back behind the vehicle you are following. The third thing is to increase speed to pull out the swaying of the trailer and then brake slowly and I mean slowly.

Being a Ken’s Trailer, I would suggest a new axle with brakes.

jssailem · Nov 25, 2022

Salty Jack said:
I'm getting back to sailing before I get too old...

Good for you.
You just got the best info. Crazy Dave knows his stuff.

JBP-PA · Nov 25, 2022

Yes, brakes can usually be added to a trailer without replacing the axle. You can get either surge brakes that do not need a controller or electric brakes. If you are not mechanically inclined, having a shop do it is easier. I have had difficulty getting a trailer mechanic to install brakes, they don't seem eager to do the work.

Crazy Dave Condon · Nov 25, 2022

I know the axles put on that trailer plus the age. New axle. Make sure fenders are secured to make sure they are not falling off.
I personally knew ken

rgranger · Nov 25, 2022

My H26 was my first boat with breaks. I’m never going back.

Benny17441 · Nov 25, 2022

Was that the NYS regulation in 1986? It was common to find 22-23' sailboats with a single axle trailer and no brakes. States are passing trailer regulations based on highway speeds and I agree that speed is a consideration of whether the trailer is adequate. It perhaps may not be adequate for 70 MPH but if the intended use is for 45MPH roads it could very well be. There is also the tow vehicle to consider, we used to trailer a 1987 Starwind 223 with a single axle trailer without brakes, the whole setup could have been close to 4,000 lbs but we towed it with a Lincoln Navigator and had no problems braking and could hardly tell we were pulling it at highway speeds We did have a problem with having to make frequent stops because of overheating bearings likely caused by the heavy load on a single axle at highway speeds (65 MPH). We trailered up and down the East Coast, Long Island Sound, Chesapeake Bay, the Outer Banks, The Florida Keys, etc. We considered adding an extra axle but never got around to it. You can control sway by placing the majority of the load ahead of the axle and increasing tongue weight with an adjustable height hitch ball mount. Must the boat be on the trailer when you take it for inspection? Listen if you want to get brakes get them, they make sense and insurance companies nowadays are looking for every angle not to pay on claims.

Crazy Dave Condon · Nov 26, 2022

What no one recognizes is the fact the hunter 23 is a wing keel that sits high up on the trailer causing the trailer to sway as the center of gravity was high up as well. This is based on personal experience as a dealer. When I submitted plans to Hunter for the 23.5, I was involved designing the trailers from that point on. I was Hunter’s overall largest small boat dealer

isaksp00 · Nov 26, 2022

I would not have tried to tow my 23 without the trailer brakes, at least not very far or fast. Mine had surge brakes, and I replaced the system myself. New coupler with surge hydraulics, new brake lines, new brakes. The brake shoe assembly bolts to the plate on the end of the axle, and I assume you'd need new wheels with the brake drum. As Dave noted, may (or will) need new axle. If I recall, without a new axle, the parts were around 300 or 400. I'm guessing you'd want electric brakes, I assume these are more $$. I'd guess 1000 or so seems reasonable for a shop to do it. I also replaced the bearings, as they were corroded.

Benny17441 · Nov 26, 2022

The Starwind 223 had a fixed keel center board combo. It had about a 2ft draft and sat high on the trailer. We never had problems with sway by placing the outboard and most movable weight in the floor of the cabin ahead of the axle and adjusting the tongue weight. I remember those boats were sold back then with single axle trailers. A strong tow vehicle is required for highway speeds.

Crazy Dave Condon · Nov 27, 2022

@Benny17441

If you put the Starwind 223 beside a Hunter 23 wing keel Hunter on a Ken’s Welding trailer, the Hunter 23 sits higher. However, I disagree with your assessment on the Hunter 23 sitting atop of Ken’s Welding trailer without brakes no matter how it is positioned. As I said my comments are based on knowledge and experience, not on supposition.

Originally brakes were not considered nor an option! The 23 was forward on the trailer as far as it would go on a Ken’s trailer with a single axle. I was on US 220 north of Greensboro, NC which was a heavily traveled road towing my a 23 to my dealership at Smith Mountain Lake near Roanoke, VA.

A tractor trailer southbound on US 220 went left of center line striking the port side of the boat causing it to sway violently. I was behind other traffic trying to brake from hitting traffic in front of me with the trailer and boat swaying violently which caused me to loose control. The boat came loose from the trailer with both that crossed over to the other side of the road. My car too crossed over too in front of oncoming semi’s missing from being broadsided by a tractor trailer rig by 5 feet. Boat and trailer were totaled. Car sustained minim damage. The following day, Hunter was made aware of the swaying issues of a hunter 23 wing keel on a Ken’s trailer by another dealer and I too. Brakes were immediately offered as an option but in my case it was standard on all trailers. Shortly after that, the foremost sailboat trailer designer, Ron Frisosky, called at the request of Hunter. Ron was also a Catalina representative. I learned so much about designing sailboat trailers from Ron.

Without brakes on either 1or 2 axles on a Ken’s trailer, it can and will sway. Most people do not know what to do when a trailer is swaying. ALL THIS IS BASED ON EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I LEARNED FROM RON FRISOSKY. I nearly could been killed!!!

rgranger · Nov 28, 2022

Glad you wern't KILLED dave....

Benny17441 · Nov 29, 2022

Dave, I don't question your knowledge about the Hunter boats, but with all due respect trailer sway happens due to a load imbalance. There are two types of load imbalance 1) improper static balance with too much weight behind the axle and 2) motion induced imbalance due to swerving, heavy braking or road conditions. Speed is also a multiplying factor in the severity of trailer sway. The load's center of gravity sitting high on the trailer can also add to motion imbalance, but only when triggered. There is no way you can account for or prevent trailer sway when sideswiped by a tractor trailer, but that is not the trailer's fault nor the height of the center of gravity of the load. A balanced trailer is one where the majority of the weight is ahead of the axle and the corresponding tongue weight is attained with the rails parallel to a level road surface. The rule of thumb on tongue weight is 15% of the total trailer and load weight. I fully agree that no one can go wrong by adding brakes or making any modifications to improve trailering safety. I repeat that we trailered that Starwind boat for thousands of highway miles without incidents nor worry. Your incident must have been terrifying, but if because of it you got Hunter to add brakes and improve the trailer, more power to you.

Crazy Dave Condon · Dec 7, 2022

I was talking about the Ken’s Trailer only. My experience was based on my experience as I was the top selling dealer. I use to refer to it as Ken’s Whopper. I tried everything as you mentioned even with the help of the most experienced sailboat trailer designer, Ron Frisosky. He taught me well.
As for the tractor trailer hitting the towed boat the driver fell asleep at the wheel coming left of center striking the boat.

in addition most drivers with a swaying trailer tend to brake making matters worse. I took 3-4 days of instruction to teach my customers how to trailer, launch and sail their new boat. That included to accelerate to pull the swaying out and then gently brake and stay far behind the vehicle in fryof them.

As for Ken’s Whopper trailer, I improved the trailers after that delaying delivery of several Hunter 23. If there were any issues with Catalina ,Hunter and Precision, the owners came to me for help. You have no idea what I contributed to this industry. Think twice befor you challenge me again

Buying a Hunter 23. No brakes advice

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