Boat gelcoat polishing topic

[jviss]

This question, or series of questions is perhaps most appropriately directed to MainSail, since he has demonstrated mastery of the art of gelcoat polishing; but, I'm happy to benefit from anyone's experience on this topic.

I have a 1984 Catalina 36, the gelcoat of which is in reasonably good shape, above average for a 24 year old boat, in my opinion. However, it is dull, like a flat finish, in many areas, and gets dirty quickly, and stays dirty.

This year I had the boat yard polish the topsides and decks. I am not sure exactly what they did, but it looks very clean. I assume n acid wash (On and OFF), machine buff, and some wax. They did a nice job, and apparently spent a lot of time on it, but they stopped short of the wet-look that I hope to achieve.

I read MainSail's tutorial, available here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/42309-ryobi-vs-makita-vs-poliglow-3.html#post301656

I looked at his pics, here:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/buffing__waxing

So, I went out (online) and purchased the Makita 9227. The kit I got came with two nice pads, a twisted-yarn wool (white) pad, , and a wool/synthetic blend (yellow) pad, plus a nice tool bag ($177 with shipping and insurance on eBay).

I also purchased a kit of the Lake Country 8.5" CSS foam pads on autogeek.net; yellow, orange, white, black, and blue pads, backing plate and two microfiber towels, pad cleaning stuff; and got a pad cleaning tool, too.

Polishing "product:" I have on hand, from previous reading on this topic, On-and-Off Gel, West Marine Extra Duty Rubbing Compound, Meguiar's #2 Fine Cut Cleaner, and #9 Swirl Remover, 3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (39003). I have a can of West Marine Carnuba Paste Wax.

A note on these: Meguiars confuses me a bit, but it appears that #2 and #9 are intended to be complimentary products; the instructions on the containers refer to each other; this isn't on their web site, though. 3M is euqally confusing to me, although they seem to have a more straight-through product progression, from


I have 3M wet or dry sandpaper in every grit from 220 to 2000.

Also on hand, several and various microfiber cloths, spray bottles, and a couple of 5 gallon buckets.

So, in summary, the context is that I want a "better than new, wet-look finish" everywhere there is gelcoat - topsides, and decks, including all cockpit surfaces (the C36 has a big cockpit). I would like to have the best looking boat in the boat yard. I would like to do it intelligently, and as quickly and efficiently as possible, in a "workman-like manner." I want it to last, and will maintain it. I also hope to be able to do it with what I have on hand already; but I will get more if I'm missing something key. For example, do I need a "glaze?" Do I have one?

The questions are:

1. Where to start?
2. What is the recommended polishing schedule?

For question 1, I know what to do if I was starting from a heavily oxidized hull with no wax on it - which would be to wash it well, hen etch it (acid wash, On-and-Off), wet sand up through 2000 grit, then on to machine polishing (this is where it starts to get fuzzy for me).

Given that I've had some work done already, where should I jump in? Should I "test" with the Finesse-It II, and back down to coarser grits and pads if it doesn't work?

For question 2, what progression of product and pads is recommended to get to the wet look, once I've jumped in and caught up to the right spot? I mean, this pad, this product, then this pad, this product, and so on.

Bear in mind that varying parts of the boat may be at different stages of polish. I imagine I'll have varying "starting points" around the boat.

Additional thoughts: for minor gelcoat repairs, such as for broken-through voids, and filling of screw and connector holes, where and how on earth can I have gelcoat material tinted so it matches the boat well? Right now it looks like a bright white spot repair: not good; and finally, what should I do about the molded-in, contrasting color non-skid areas on deck? I want them to look good and clean, but not wet, and certainly not slippery.

Hints and tips on buffer technique are welcome, too; although I consider myself handy, I've never polished anything with a pro buffer.

Thank you all very much in advance for your input.

jv

 

[tommays]

Well

The objective is to remove the least amount of gelcoat(as there is a limited amount of material) that will expose fresh gelcoat

I would not even think about anything below 1000 grit wet sanding


People just go down different roads to get to the end result


I find it is not so much right and wrong BUT what each person is skilled enough to do , For example a buffer with corse compound in the wrong hands can burn right through

 

[BobM]

Sounds like you should...

...bribe Mainesail to consult on this task in person. Isn't it a bit late to be polishing instead of sailing?

So far I think I will stick with Poliglow (no affilation) to get that "wet look" with less effort, although I think that about every five years or so I will probably need to strip it, compound the hull to clean it, dewax it and reapply.

 

[jviss]

NIce

BobM, that looks really nice, but I have chosen the polish route, a opposed to Poliglow or similar. Just a preference.

As for sailing, I'm in the water now. Plan on doing some cockpit and deck polishing work during the season, and topsides after we haul for the winter.

 

[BobM]

Of course....

...I don't know if I'd poliglow the cockpit or the cabin top because of traction. It is a pretty easy way of getting a wet look surface that, once applied, will be easy to maintain for about five years (in my opinion). My new boat had it and it has been on it for years. I removed the scuffs with a scotch-brite pad and applied two more coats and it looks great from twenty feet. At two feet you can see that there are some imperfections in the multiple coats, but it depends how much of a perfectionist you are.

For kicks I just searched and in the FAQ for poliglow apparently it is possible to use it, but like wax on those surfaces, it is a personal decision vs. safety.

Q. Is dry Poli Glow slippery? Should it be applied to "non-skid" areas?
A. The Poli Glow surface will reduce the effectiveness of molded "non-skid" if it fills in the voids that provide the traction. When traction is of significant importance: high foot traffic, competitive boating, and commercial applications, we recommend the use of our non-skid product Woody Wax Non-Skid Deck Wax on the deck. However, many of our customers (myself included) have used it with no problems on non-skid. Just be sure that all wax/polish is completely removed prior to application. If the non-skid is particularly aggressive, use a disposable foam brush and apply in even strokes, just like varnish. If the Poli Glow bubbles using the brush, just apply less pressure and resist the urge to go over any holidays (where you missed) while the product is still wet. They can be addressed with the next coat.

Q. The supplied applicator does not appear to be getting the Poli Glow down into the recesses of my non-skid surface, now what?
A. In the event the non-skid is too aggressive (deep) for the chamois applicator that is supplied with the kit, just use a disposable foam brush to apply the Poli Glow to the non-skid ONLY. If you try to use the brush on a smooth surface you will probably get bubbling/foaming. Use the foam brush technique only on non-skid using the same smooth/even strokes you would use with the chamois applicator, if you get bubbles using the foam brush you are probably pressing too hard. (Back)

 

[BobM]

Understood

At this point I am still doing my own poliglow "experiment" but for those who are okay with a shine good from 20 feet that is renewable in a few hours a year it is a good option for the price. You definitely went the right route with the Makita. I bought a cheapo model to use on my last boat and it wasn't worth the price of shipping. It couldn't maintain constant speed under load.

Have fun,

Bob

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

too much of a good thing

There seems to me to be more polish/wax discussions than anything else here.

Pride of ownership is always a good thing but it amazes me (maybe I'm the only one) the extent to which some people go. No offense intended.

My once a year cleaning/wax job always seems to be identical to those who spend an extraordinary amount of time:
Springtime - wash off dirt built up over the winter.
Clean deck gelcoat with Collinite cleaner [per directions)
Two coats Collinite wax.
Topsides (Awlgrip) - wash and apply Awlcare acrylic wax.

What am I missing?

 

[jviss]

Different strokes

Don,

All things are relative, and my desired boat appearance is a standard much higher than what most people in my area achieve.

As I mentioned, my yard did a nice job, but stopped short of what I ultimately want - which is wet-look gloss of the gelcoat with a couple of coats of carnauba wax on it.

I think that kind of finish will look clean, stay clean, be easier to clean; oxidize more slowly, thus be easier to maintain; and increase the value of the boat, and my enjoyment of it.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

It must be all in perception

JViss
I have tried but can't tell the difference in results between our most infamous polishers at my marina and what I get with a minimum of effort. If it makes the boat go faster though, I'm in!

 

[jviss]

So, anyway, ...

Don, you must just be lucky!

I would love to hear from folks who are experienced polishers.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

experienced polishers?

they're too busy polishing

 

[Dan H]

Probably never happen

Get a high powered magnifying glass and look at the gelcoat closely. If there is lots of porosity in the gelcoat, it will never shine better than new. It won't even shine as good as new.
I have a piece of fiberglass from the inside of my boat (also a Catalina) that didn't see much weather. I sanded it up through all the grits and polished it with 3M Finesse-It II and it will never shine simply due to porosity.
If you want a better than new gelcoat shine, put new gelcoat on the boat and polish that.
My opinion.

 

[Maine Sail]

Really??

Quote: "It won't even shine as good as new."

I really must totally disagree with this. As an experiment I bought an old sailing dinghy from a neighbor. It is from the late 60's or early 70's and had been sitting uncovered, upside down for the last 18 years straight.

I brought it home threw it on some saw horses and spent an hour on one side with wet sanding & compounding. The results speak for themselves.. Gelcoat, even the worst examples can be restored you just need to know what you are doing..

 

[Tim R.]

Soooo

For those of you with authentic gelcoat, you can sand, buff, polish and wax to get excellent results and a huge sense of pride when completed.

For those with about $10,000 laying around, you can get your boat professionally painted with Imron or Awlgrip and it will minimize your maintenance efforts. Although I still polish my Imron every year and apply 2 coats of collinite. If your gelcoat is too far gone, this is your only option for a shiney boat.

Don, the styling of your boat makes it seem to be a later model boat. Why the topside paint? Did it come from the builder that way?

 

[John]

poli glow

I put about five coats of poli glow on our boat about six or eight months ago. About two months ago I noticed some dull spots. I called poli glow and they told me that I hadn't put enough coats on and I should add a couple more. I did that. Now, I see that it is peeling off in some areas. If others have had good results with poli glow, then I assume I'm doing something wrong, but my experience is that it's not as easy as they tell you. I'm going back to wax.

 

[Ross]

DanH, I have a microscope that will find

surface defects if they exist. But there is a practical limit to what the naked human eye can detect. "if you want better than new, apply new gel coat and polish that". Just what does that mean?
That effort will still only yield "NEW". You can't get better than 100 percent or better than new, if new was perfect. if "NEW" wasn't perfect then it wasn't finished or complete.

 

[Maine Sail]

Ross..

Actually, in 2005 I bought a brand new boat. I happen to know, from speaking with the factory, how they detail these boats as they come out of the mold and get ready to ship. They generally use only a rubbing compound in the bad spots. Rubbing compounds, by the shere nature of the grit, leave micro abrasions or swirls.

Many builders do this, from Grady White, to Catalina and it's fairly standard across the industry. Production builders just do not have the available labor hours in the product to actually polish the gel coat to remove the swirls so they generally send them out compounded at best.

To make a long story short I spent 10 hours on my brand new 2005 boat and when I was done the other folks taking delivery were asking why their boats didn't shine like "that one". "Better than new" is what I brought mine to with two additional grades of polish and then a coat of Collinite. To know "better than new" you need to understand just what "new" is and it's not as perfect as many think.

This is perhaps one of the reasons so many boats oxidize prematurely. The swirls or micro ridges and valleys create more surface are for the sun to do it's dirty deeds on. Glass smooth gelcoat will resist oxidizing far better than a surface with defects or swirls..

You can have better than new if you by a production gelcoat boat and it takes about a day of work to get it there..

 

[jimq26]

John in Alameda - you are definitely doing something wrong!

Don't know what you did, but everyone I have converted to PoliGlow now swears by it and has incredible results. I'm talking boats that are 25 to 30 years old.

 

[jviss]

question

Thanks, Maine. How should I initially wash the wool pad?

Also, I have a shearling pad that fits - meaning a piece of sheepskin with the wool still attached. Is this useful, and for what?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

response to Tim and Maine

TimR
When I described the minimal effort, I was referring primarily to the deck gelcoat, cockpit and transom, none of which is painted. It appears as new even though the boat is a 94. The topsides paint decision was my wife's - she likes green and I'm partial to dark colored hulls.
Maine
I was not referring to the Awlgripped portion other than to say it only required washing/Awlcare application. For brevity sake, I didn't describe it better and can't attach side-by-side pics of a dock neighbor's meticulious efforts, time and energy compared with me but suffice it to say the difference between his gelcoat and mine is indiscernable. I've read your description of the steps you take and all I can say is I'm glad you don't own a big powerboat.