Blue Water Capable Sailboat

[sailaway78]

BEO

I am not suggesting that radar is a necessity for everyone, and I am not suggesting that radar is a critical instrument, nor would I try to tell anyone they had to have it, but in some areas it can get pretty close to being a necessity, for safe sailing. Our areas are totally different and have different hazards to be aware of. Here we have the ICW, which winds it's way through the various bays and land cuts, with medium to heavy barge traffic. In a heavy fog this can be disaster waiting to happen. While I normally make it a practice to not run inshore at night, you can run into a heavy fog bank in mid afternoon, with no choice but to keep on keeping on. Going into Biloxi, all the casino lights make it almost impossible to pick out the markers at night, even if they are lit. Offshore there are literally thousands of oil rigs, and again, some or them are not lit up, and they are not on the charts. It is also a very good navigation tool, when approaching a strange coast line. Compare the radar image to the chart, and you can virtually pinpoint location. At almost any time, day or night heavy fog is a distinct possibility and there are a lot of shrimp and crab boats on the water. So for me, in this area, to feel as safe as possible, radar is a necessity. I think a lot of those who don't think they need a radar, are not familiar with what a radar can do, and what a positive effect it can have on not only their safety but their comfort zone.

 

[sand sailor]

i have a schock santana 27

its built for heavy wind it can handle rough seas but it came pretty much stripped bare bones for speed no holding tanks not even a stove .it could be up graded to be a blue water boat without any structural changes i'm sure but as it sits its not ready for a trip across the big blue that would cost me about a thousand pounds and ilike being bigger than most on the lake but im definitly not slower ;d

 

[Ross]

Sand sailor Doesn't sound like the sort of

boat that you would enjoy leisurely cruising on for a couple of weeks. I am much too fond of my creature comforts to go bare bones on a boat. But if you would like fresh baked cookies or a turkey casserole and a glass of good wine then I know a boat where you can find those things.

 

[higgs]

Offshore boats

Read " A Voyage of Madmen", a book about the first single handed, non stop, around the world race and you will learn how even lightly built boats are capable of making significant passages. You will also learn how those type of boats become problematic when conditions get out of hand. You could sail almost anything across the Atlantic as long as your luck holds and odds are it will. Also - take a look a the Hobie 33, which was built for the Trans Pac. This boat weighs 4500 lbs and has made the trip from Cal to Hawaii. I don't feel safe on this boat on the Great Lakes, but it has been successful on the open Pacific. The other side of the coin is that even well founded boats have faltered on the open ocean when conditions turn survival. Those conditions are not the norm, but they do occasionally happen. Odds are that one won't encounter that. One pays their money and takes their chances.

 

[Phil]

Scenario

A nice 38', heavey, hulking, go ahead and try to hurt me crusier, in bad weather, large, steep cresting seas and the marginal Captain doesen't handle the situation properly or doesn't have the necessary equipment. Situation, the boat gets rolled or pitch polled or whatever. Lets even say it is lucky enough to right itself. Odds are its not in the best of shape ie. dismasted, extra fuel tanks probaply missing, god only knows about the electrical system and the condition of crew members after a AAA Salt & Pepper ride is probaply marginal. A boat of lesser quality, not a Mac 22, not a Catalina 27, lets just use something reasonable, gets caught in the same situation (this is not a Cat 5 hurricane). The Captain has the necessary equipment and deploys a parachute or drogue. The boat steadies itself into the seas as the chute prevents the pitch polling. Which has handle the "bluewater" better? Which boat would you want to be on. What is the difference? You can always build a better boat, how much money you got?If I was made Captain of a Boomer (a tatical nuclear sub, quite capabale) I am not to sure we would be coming back alive. I would have no idea what I was doing.If you are looking for a clean, fit in a hole, buy this boat answer, its not going to happen. One persons "this is a perfect bluewater boat" is anothers, "are you insane".

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Still missing the point

When one asks..What makes a sailboat "blue water" capable?. The implied assumption is that the same captain will be behind the wheel. This is basic english, not philosophy.Now...Phil.....If we were to have one and only one captain, and he is exactly as physically fit on either boat, and both boats have exactly the same equipment, and were to have exactly the same weather conditions on a long trip, which means the weather reports are close to useless, and they have the same exact really bad weather along the way and whatever else you can come up with. Lets assume all else being equal....Again, we are not asking if the capt is blue water capable, thats a different question. What makes a SAILBOAT, repeat, a SAILBOAT (not the Capt, because he is the same guy in either case) blue water capable?I'm looking for physical qualities, not metaphysical and not philosphical. If you dont know the answer, thats OK, I'm just as curious.Also, what and where do you sail and what is your experience level? Tony B

 

[Ross]

In my earliest post I quoted from Storm Tactics

on the general requirements that Larry Pardey believes makes a boat able to bring you home. Above all it must be very strong, it should have small windows that won't break in a knock down, it will not down flood if the cockpit fills with water, the mast will float, it will shed water quickly when it does come aboard, it will be repairable at sea, at least to jury rig standards, it must be able to be fitted quickly qith an emergency tiller. It should have a 2 inch manual bilge pump inside with an accessable strum box. The book should be required reading for anyone contemplating an offshore voyage.

 

[MoonSailer]

Who Needs One???

This discussion is always good for a debate. But to answer my own question ,"not many of us". Even those with capable boats rarely sail out of sight of land. It's the dream!!!! I've got my 28' 35 year old Buccaneer in a small lake and I want to dream!!!! Sailers that realisticly "need" a blue water boat know what they need and don't go to a chat room to ask people of absolutely unknown qualifications to help them pick out a boat. During the dreaming stages it's easy to take one's Catalina 22 with a swing keel sailing around icebergs and photographing polar bears. A stormy afternoon in the Bay gives them a reality check. If you have a Mac 25 swing keel and want to dream about sailing to Bermuda..go for it!!! But please do a reality check before you actually head out of the bay. "Survive the Savage Sea" is a neat book on shipwreck survivors living in a tiny dinghy for months floating in the open pacific. Their boat was attacked by killer whales and sank. Their life raft came apart and they all piled into a 10' dinghy. SOOOOO a family lived in the open pacific for over a month eating fish and turtles and drinking rainwater....Does this mean that a 10' dinghy is the ideal bluewater boat??? It's been done!!!!!!!!! Killer whales sank a 40' ketch....but my Catalina 22' is bulletproof. My brother sailing a 25' Island Packet had a whale longer than the boat swim directly under him near Tampa. They caught a 22' great white off of Cuba!!! Exactly how small and frail of a boat do you want to go to sea in???? WE want even talk about the huge tree we ecountered sailing off Destin. Fortunately it was daytime but at night we'd probably hit that log.

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Ross, you forgot..

Ross, you are a man of few words. But well spoken words.You did however forgot one thing.....an 8 X 10 Glossy of the Easter Bunny Tony B

 

[Phil]

Mabey I'm a little slow

First off who spells probably like that? Sorry.Second. What your looking for is what YOU want to have in a boat you would go out to sea in. I guarantee what you want and what the Volvo racers want aren't even close. Would you like no paint, to pee in a bucket, not to be able to cook anything? How about if it can't righ itself like "Play Station" and many of the mono hull ocean racers because of their beam. There are many people that have rounded the world on boats that aren't on YOUR "bluewater" list or would even come close to qualifying for it. Many want tanks, some in hopes that the tank will compensate for what they may lack in ability. Others want to push the envelope testing and feeling their abilities can deal with any necessary issues. Then there is everything in between. Taking a small boat into the middle of the ocean is usually not fun and probably not the best of ideas. It typically moves between uncomfortable, boring and terrifying. It is challenging, it will test your abilities and will most likely give you stories to write about or tell. I am pretty sure that if you asked the USCG their thoughts on crossing the ocean in a 38' boat they most likely wouldn't be to keen on the idea at all. Why do that?Is one boat better than another given one specific Captain? Yes. Any one captain would have a preference if you were to give him a wish list of boats. That list will vary greatly on what you want to do? So that list is going to change with the task and the Captain.

 

[Ross]

Tonyb, Sorry about that sin of omission

but have a Hoppy Easter anyway.

 

[MoonSailer]

Ross What are you Doing??

Ross it seems like you are retired and have a good boat. What are you doing??? What are your cruising plans??? Are you coming down south??? My wife and I are planning to retire and go sailing next year.

 

[Ross]

Moonsailor, I am still too young to retire

completely but I have a home repair business that allows quite a bit of free time. So I work a few days each week spend some nice days on the boat, take care of the yard and our house, read a few books and just enjoy the world. I would like to sail far and to places that I have never been but probably will never leave the Chesapeake. With 58 named rivers and 10,000 miles of tidal shore line I doubt that I will live long enough to see all of it but that does remain my goal.

 

[Jim]

Phil, you are not slow at all

Phil,You are not slow. You just don’t want to believe that some boats are better than others for any reason. There is a lot of sailor like you. We let me assure you a Hunter or Catalina is out gunned by a Han Christen or Pacific Seacraft when it comes to Blue Water capabilities. That is why they are consider Blue Water boats.

 

[CharlieCobra]

Ok, to answer a question about the H54 that was

largely ignored. The Hunter 54 is well built, easily driven and fast. What scares me is that 10' of the boat under the cockpit is open to the sea as a dingy hanger/garage. Also, because the hanger is there, the rudder was moved well forward of the stern which has caused control issue while running downhill. I can just imagine a 30 breaker slamming into that yawning hole from astern and ripping the boat apart because of overpressure. of course, I'm probably speaking out of my butt because not having set foot on one of these boats yet, I don't know exactly how they're set up and if that would really be an issue. I could see having that hole glassed in so I could have a gigantic Laz unit. The biggest benefit of driving an H54 is the fact that it's fast as heel and would give you the chance to run out from under the weather before it got bad.

 

[Bavaria 38E Owner]

The Garage of the H54, etc.

Yeah, I know what you mean now about the hanger; the owners like it b/c it's a fine place to store the dink, even an inflated one. I believe there is just a hatch, as in a locker type, that lifts up to open it. You have to be outside the life lines perching on the transom platform to open it (precarious). Nobody would likely ever do that except in harbor. I don't know about the downhill work; I've ridden the boat a few times off Long Beach, and raced with the skipper to Ensenada, but the conditions were really mild, so no help there. I like the boat b/c it's all set up for various sail combinations to be used. You have the capability of rigging an inner stay that can also be taken down. The boat can easily make 9-10 kt in 15 kt of wind; it has a great nav-station setup, reefer and freezer for the comfort level; totally accessable engine, a nice v-berth and a starboard mini-cabin, two heads, and at least a functional salon. The long narrow bow area puts you pretty far from the spray that's being kicked-up out front, & it steers effortlessly (maybe this is due to some slight "lee helm" considering where the rudderpost is located?). I'd like to see her under really challenging conditions!BEO

 

[sand sailor]

hey ross

have you ever had your sailboat plaining across the top of the water???thats why i dont add creature comforts i wouldnt win any races that way

 

[Ross]

Sand Sailor, my boat wouldn't plane

with a 4000 hp engine. Round bottom, full keel, wine glass shape looking aft . But she is so nice at anchor on a quiet evening with my Nancy and a glass of good wine.

 

[CharlieCobra]

There ya go Ross, it's all about perspectives and

desires. My liitle boat will plane downwind in a blow but I sure won't try drinking a goblet of wine in it.

 

[Liam]

Cross country car...

Never drive across country in a car that is not designed for anything and everything that could ever possibly happen.The best car is a HUMMER. Nothing else will do. If you are crossing the Rockies and there is an unexpected blizzard, best be in a HUMMER.Driving through San Francisco and experience an 8.5 quake, you will need a HUMMER.Midwest tornado, you got it... HUMMER.Traffic jam, get off the road and go around in your HUMMER.Forget about weather forcasts...no need for any type of planning, just go in your HUMMER.If you can't afford a HUMMER it would be best to just stay at home where it is safe, secure, and nothing can happen to you.Sure... you say, "How about all those other folks out there crossing the country in cars that aren't HUMMERS?"Well, they are just stupid foolish people who will probably die soon. Forget them, they are idiots.