What Jessie said. Tons of good information there, and excellent explanations that make sense.Mike,
Go to the featured contributors section of the forum for Mainesail's section. Read everything there. You will find a link to Mainesail's Compass Marine How To page. Read everything there. It will answer all your questions.
Thanks. All of those connections came with the boat and will be replaced, along with most of the wire. Interesting idea about shrinking after installation. Any issues with getting the shrink hot enough, but not cooking other parts close by? I usually use a heat gun with a curved end fitting.Something not discussed is the type of wire termination lugs. They should be ones with closed ends commonly called solder cups. But you can still crimp them. Looking at Marchem's photo, there are several that expose the wire ends to the elements and corrosion starts migrating up the wire strands. Use the solder cups and then adhesive lined heat shrink and the wire will last "forever". Also, I don't heat the heat shrink until after installation. That way its shrunk on in the position used and you wont break the adhesive bending it around. And as Maine states, use a battery terminal spray.
As for battery positions, I just installed four 6V that I bought from Dyno in Seattle. I did ask about positioning relative to plate corners going dry from healing. They state their battery is good to 40 deg of heal in both planes.
The two batteries were new in July 2017, so I'm not planning to swap them until they are shot. If they are not deep cycle, how do they work?Mike, just install the Sterling ProCharge Ultra in 60-100 amp. Here is a step by step on how to do it. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/installing_a_marine_battery_charger
You can buy it from Mainesail who wrote the above article. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/purchase_a_procharge_ultra
Just install it as a two bank charger for now and later we can give some advice on changes and adding solar. It should take an afternoon to install the new charger. It is not very complicated.
Let me know if you need some help walking through the install.
Good luck,
Jesse
They are really starting batteries for trucks and heavy equipment. The plates are thinner than true deep cycle batteries like like 6 volt golf carts. They have a capacity of about 185 amp hours each. But you can only use 50%.The two batteries were new in July 2017, so I'm not planning to swap them until they are shot. If they are not deep cycle, how do they work?
These last two lines aren't compatible. You can't buy cheap and expect to forget about it. That's the problem with what is on board. Cheap, egg timer not a true smart charger.I've read through all that on Mainssails page. I was looking at the Cabelas Pro series marine charger in the 20amp version. It meets Mainesails UL rating ;-). But it falls short in a few other areas per his article. We had the 8amp on our 27 and it was a nice upgrade considering there was no charger at all. PO was only charging via the engine. I don't need to go top shelf, as we aren't crossing the Atlantic anytime soon. I would like something I can plug in and forget about, and it will let me know when there is a problem.
You size the chargers based on the bank. You have two 185 Ah batteries for a total of 370 Ah. You want 20% of the bank for your charger size or at a minimum 10%. So at least 37 Amps but a 74 amp would be better. Plus if you keep the boat for any length of time you will end up upgrading to four 6 volt golf carts as one bank and possibly a reserve bank (I'll get to this to answer your statement below). That will be a 450-550 Ah bank. So the charger you would want then is 45-110 amp. Hence my 60-100 amp recommendation. The 20 amp charger probably won't actually get you back to 100% soc or be able to equalize the batteries. It's doesn't appear to actually be a smart charger. Just a better egg timer charger.60-100amp, holy shit, I was thinking 20amp....
Nope, you don't need a dedicated starter battery on most sailboats. Just start from the primary bank. Several of us have moved to 4 x 6v golf cart batteries arranged in series and parallel and a small, group 24, reserve bank. You do everything off of the primary bank and then have the reserve there as a backup. You can read more about that on Mainesail's forum section or on my blog.I have thought about adding a dedicated starting battery, not sure if its needed for our weekend sailing, and kinda think if that becomes an issue we can add that down the road. For now I would mainly like to upgrade the charger so I don't have to worry about it cooking the batteries.
Short answer yes. That's why I said just to install it as a two bank charger for now. There are two 4 AWG red wires and one black that run from the factory charger to the batteries. Disconnect them from the batteries along with all of the other cables.Wondering if I remove the factory charger and mount the new charger in the same location, can I use the old wires to hook up the new charger or do I have to run all new wires? That doesn't look real fun.
My advise is to not do anything for the next season other than the battery charger and maintenance. Stay away from upgrades for now. Just because you cruised a 27 footer one way doesn't mean you will do the same on the 310. You really made a bigger upgrade than the length suggests. The capabilities of your new boat are far beyond that of a stock 27. It's a big boat in a small package. For instance the autopilot. Never had one on our previous boat and didn't use it much the first two years. Now like most cruisers it steers 90% of the time. Also makes single handing a breeze.The boat is also equipped with a big inverter, the PO said you can run the microwave from it. Was actually thinking of removing it, not sure we have any use for that.
Check for fuses. The factory setup wasn't fused well. Please make sure both batteries are fused.Next time at the boat, she will be on the hard and I will finish winterization. Then I will pull the top off the battery compartment and get a better look at what is going on and better assess the project. Initial inspection seemed like everything thing was done in a neat and organized manner.
Thanks, Mike
I would actually recommend a dedicated starting battery. The wiring does get a little more complex, but, at least for me, not having the electronics drop out when starting the engine makes it worth doing (of course the dropout may be due to the poor state of my current batteries!). But doing it as a plain 1/2/Both is also perfectly fine. Probably the more important thing is to wire things so that the battery switch is only selecting the power source for the house load, and all of the charging (alternator, AC battery charger, solar, etc.) is automatically shared with both banks via an ACR or equivalent. Maine Sail's write up and descriptions are very helpful, and he's always been willing to answer my questions about these things.Nope, you don't need a dedicated starter battery on most sailboats. Just start from the primary bank. Several of us have moved to 4 x 6v golf cart batteries arranged in series and parallel and a small, group 24, reserve bank. You do everything off of the primary bank and then have the reserve there as a backup. You can read more about that on Mainesail's forum section or on my blog.
Jesse
Jesse, do you think the voltage drop will be too much with a 60-100 A charger and 40+ feet of #4 wire? Of course it's only going to draw 50-60 A for a short while, so maybe that's not an issue. However, I do remember someone here who had #10 wire on his C310; that would be a problem.Short answer yes. That's why I said just to install it as a two bank charger for now. There are two 4 AWG red wires and one black that run from the factory charger to the batteries. Disconnect them from the batteries along with all of the other cables.
Jesse
For the setup as a two bank charger with each leg going to a 4D battery not that much. Like you said it's almost never going to push the full amperage down one leg. But for a future upgrade that includes a larger primary bank, a reserve bank and an ACR where you but all the power to the primary bank then yes. When I did this second phase of power upgrades I ran a 2/0 gauge wires from the charger to the batteries. Probably overkill going that big but I got a deal at a marine consignment store that had the cost at the same as 2 gauge.Jesse, do you think the voltage drop will be too much with a 60-100 A charger and 40+ feet of #4 wire? Of course it's only going to draw 50-60 A for a short while, so maybe that's not an issue. However, I do remember someone here who had #10 wire on his C310; that would be a problem.
Another advantage of rewiring with an ACR is that you only need two bigger wires from the charger, instead of 3. That makes it easier to fit #2 or larger wire in those PVC conduits!
ProMariner recommends up to a #2 depending on amps and distance. Their DC connection easily handles large wire, with a 1/4” stud.I doubt that many chargers have the ability to terminate any wire over maybe a 6?
2/0? That's big! Any problem getting that through the conduit? At least it's only two wires, and not three; plus you don;t need to worry about voltage drop.For the setup as a two bank charger with each leg going to a 4D battery not that much. Like you said it's almost never going to push the full amperage down one leg. But for a future upgrade that includes a larger primary bank, a reserve bank and an ACR where you but all the power to the primary bank then yes. When I did this second phase of power upgrades I ran a 2/0 gauge wires from the charger to the batteries. Probably overkill going that big but I got a deal at a marine consignment store that had the cost at the same as 2 gauge.
I am also still running a 40 amp crappy Xantrex charger. Eventually I may upgrade but we don't use the charger that much anymore. Only for the charging from the generator on occasion when it's been cloudy for a few days in a row. Otherwise solar is the primary source of our charging.
Not sure what charger you are using but even the crappy Xantrex Truecharge 2 I have is setup with threaded rod for typical lugs.I doubt that many chargers have the ability to terminate any wire over maybe a 6?
I ran another conduit next to the two factory conduits. At the time I was considering putting an inverter charger on but ended up going with separate units based on Mainesail's advice based on the redundancy of having two separate units. In hindsight I would do a combined unit. I gave up 1/3 of the settee locker next to the batteries for the inverter to get it to not have too much voltage loss. The inverter charger unit would have mounted in the back and would have saved space. Cruise small requires some sacrifices and that is one I wish I did different.2/0? That's big! Any problem getting that through the conduit? At least it's only two wires, and not three; plus you don;t need to worry about voltage drop.