Atomic Four woes
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A2 Ross...
...I once looked at a red-hot full race Morgan 27 that had the same engine. It didn't run when I did the sea trial, so I can't comment on how well she ran . The broker was kiting the impound funds, so he couldn't get title and I bought an O'Day with a Yanmar instead. First time I ran it, I couldn't figure out how to shut the damn thing off. A little red-faced. Rick D.
...I once looked at a red-hot full race Morgan 27 that had the same engine. It didn't run when I did the sea trial, so I can't comment on how well she ran . The broker was kiting the impound funds, so he couldn't get title and I bought an O'Day with a Yanmar instead. First time I ran it, I couldn't figure out how to shut the damn thing off. A little red-faced. Rick D.
A2 Ross...
...I once looked at a red-hot full race Morgan 27 that had the same engine. It didn't run when I did the sea trial, so I can't comment on how well she ran . The broker was kiting the impound funds, so he couldn't get title and I bought an O'Day with a Yanmar instead. First time I ran it, I couldn't figure out how to shut the damn thing off. A little red-faced. Rick D.
...I once looked at a red-hot full race Morgan 27 that had the same engine. It didn't run when I did the sea trial, so I can't comment on how well she ran . The broker was kiting the impound funds, so he couldn't get title and I bought an O'Day with a Yanmar instead. First time I ran it, I couldn't figure out how to shut the damn thing off. A little red-faced. Rick D.
A4 is a good motor
I am amazed at the A4 bashing. I have nothing but great things to say about mine. I get almost a half gallon per hour for fuel consumption. It runs smooth, it is cheap and simple to maintain, and mine is 37 years old. I have added eletronic ignition for the whopping prices of $77 and it was so simple that even the most mechaniclly challenged can do it. I will admit that I have rebuilt my carb and added an electric fuel pump but again very very simple projects (and much cheaper than replacing a fuel injector). I do think if you are not savoy about engines the A4 is a great engine for you because it is simple enough to work on even with the most basic of skills. The internet is loaded with resources for repairing them. You better be a pretty fair mechanic if you want to start tweaking on your diesal and they cost more to repair. The truth is that any motor can break down at anytime. I have seen motors with only a couple hours come apart and I have seen old motors like mine go 37 years with no major problems. It truly is a crap shoot. If you have the $14000-$15000s it takes to put a new diesal in and you are so inclined, do it. If not, work with what you have, rebuild it if needed and you will know everything to know about the engine you are using. Either way, you are not going to get the money back when you sell you boat which I don't think is a concern you have.
I am amazed at the A4 bashing. I have nothing but great things to say about mine. I get almost a half gallon per hour for fuel consumption. It runs smooth, it is cheap and simple to maintain, and mine is 37 years old. I have added eletronic ignition for the whopping prices of $77 and it was so simple that even the most mechaniclly challenged can do it. I will admit that I have rebuilt my carb and added an electric fuel pump but again very very simple projects (and much cheaper than replacing a fuel injector). I do think if you are not savoy about engines the A4 is a great engine for you because it is simple enough to work on even with the most basic of skills. The internet is loaded with resources for repairing them. You better be a pretty fair mechanic if you want to start tweaking on your diesal and they cost more to repair. The truth is that any motor can break down at anytime. I have seen motors with only a couple hours come apart and I have seen old motors like mine go 37 years with no major problems. It truly is a crap shoot. If you have the $14000-$15000s it takes to put a new diesal in and you are so inclined, do it. If not, work with what you have, rebuild it if needed and you will know everything to know about the engine you are using. Either way, you are not going to get the money back when you sell you boat which I don't think is a concern you have.
Cool William!
Your engines' fuel consumption is historical. You're quoting 'hull speed', RIGHT?
Because that's right up there with a diesel. Good thing you don't mention the type of engine that you claim can fail during your crap shoot. If you would have specified diesels,,,well, you'd have a LOT of egg on your face. And there is a reason for all those A4 'service and repair' resources. And you're right about simple repairs. I hauled my A4 out of the boat and swapped-out the broken crank right on the pier. Too bad I had to find out how TRULY simple they are built. (four cylinders, TWO main bearings!) But then too, they weigh twice as much as an equivalent diesel. Remember, they can never produce 30 horse power without exploding. That's why they're called Atomic. William, do this for all of us here in diesel-land; Fill your fuel tank. Contact a buddie and have him follow you with his boat, out of the location that you keep your boat. Start your stopwatch. Advance your throttle to wide-open. Note the elapsed time that your engine explodes. Have your friend tow you back to the fuel dock. Replace the fuel used. Divide the quart of gas into the elapsed run-time that failure occurred. Fuel consumption would equal about a gallon and a half per hour. Next step, replace with a diesel. Let's see, what else, re-reading,,,, Oh! "Fair mechanic" required to work on a diesel?! That's a myth propagated by A4 owners! There's is little to NOTHING to do to maintain a diesel. Let's see,,,change the oil. Do you change oil on your A4? What else? Oh, check valve clearance every few years. Does your A4 need that? What else? Clean fuel. There's a biggy. Does your A4 need clean fuel? Thinking,,,let's see, Oh yeah, replace water-pump impeller on the raw water side. The fresh water side needs an occasional anti freeze change too. Do you change anti freeze, or is your A4 raw water cooled? 37 years old, I doubt it. What else? How about prop-shaft alignment? Do you have a prop shaft? (silly me, of course you do) What else? Hmmm, Bleeding the fuel after a filter change. You change filters don't you? You don't bleed and you installed an electric pump. Well, lots of diesel owners did that too, to simplify bleeding. (hint to all you A4 owners; IT'S REALLY EASY.) Lordy, I'm fresh out of stuff to do to a diesel. Injector service is too rare to consider as maintenance. Anything left on your A4? What? Tune-ups? Timing? Spark plugs? Cap and rotor? Plug wires? No points though, you got rid of 'em. Hey! How does it run without a battery and the electrical system working perfectly? And speaking of electrical system, DO YOU HAVE ONE IN YOUR BOAT? I doubt you have much of one. An A4 drives the alternator too slow for decent output. Must have a gas powered generator huh? I hear those are pretty good. Of course, using one fuel aboard is a good thing. Too bad that fuel can EXPLODE!
Your engines' fuel consumption is historical. You're quoting 'hull speed', RIGHT?
Because that's right up there with a diesel. Good thing you don't mention the type of engine that you claim can fail during your crap shoot. If you would have specified diesels,,,well, you'd have a LOT of egg on your face. And there is a reason for all those A4 'service and repair' resources. And you're right about simple repairs. I hauled my A4 out of the boat and swapped-out the broken crank right on the pier. Too bad I had to find out how TRULY simple they are built. (four cylinders, TWO main bearings!) But then too, they weigh twice as much as an equivalent diesel. Remember, they can never produce 30 horse power without exploding. That's why they're called Atomic. William, do this for all of us here in diesel-land; Fill your fuel tank. Contact a buddie and have him follow you with his boat, out of the location that you keep your boat. Start your stopwatch. Advance your throttle to wide-open. Note the elapsed time that your engine explodes. Have your friend tow you back to the fuel dock. Replace the fuel used. Divide the quart of gas into the elapsed run-time that failure occurred. Fuel consumption would equal about a gallon and a half per hour. Next step, replace with a diesel. Let's see, what else, re-reading,,,, Oh! "Fair mechanic" required to work on a diesel?! That's a myth propagated by A4 owners! There's is little to NOTHING to do to maintain a diesel. Let's see,,,change the oil. Do you change oil on your A4? What else? Oh, check valve clearance every few years. Does your A4 need that? What else? Clean fuel. There's a biggy. Does your A4 need clean fuel? Thinking,,,let's see, Oh yeah, replace water-pump impeller on the raw water side. The fresh water side needs an occasional anti freeze change too. Do you change anti freeze, or is your A4 raw water cooled? 37 years old, I doubt it. What else? How about prop-shaft alignment? Do you have a prop shaft? (silly me, of course you do) What else? Hmmm, Bleeding the fuel after a filter change. You change filters don't you? You don't bleed and you installed an electric pump. Well, lots of diesel owners did that too, to simplify bleeding. (hint to all you A4 owners; IT'S REALLY EASY.) Lordy, I'm fresh out of stuff to do to a diesel. Injector service is too rare to consider as maintenance. Anything left on your A4? What? Tune-ups? Timing? Spark plugs? Cap and rotor? Plug wires? No points though, you got rid of 'em. Hey! How does it run without a battery and the electrical system working perfectly? And speaking of electrical system, DO YOU HAVE ONE IN YOUR BOAT? I doubt you have much of one. An A4 drives the alternator too slow for decent output. Must have a gas powered generator huh? I hear those are pretty good. Of course, using one fuel aboard is a good thing. Too bad that fuel can EXPLODE!can you say Beta
Last week I worked the New England boat show for a local marina . One of the items they sold was the Beta diesel. They are drop in design replacement for the Atomic .For 7k 5 year self install garantee how can you go wrong .We sold several . Just think of all the 60/70s boats out there suffering with the Atomic . You can even use them for mooring blocks any more!
Last week I worked the New England boat show for a local marina . One of the items they sold was the Beta diesel. They are drop in design replacement for the Atomic .For 7k 5 year self install garantee how can you go wrong .We sold several . Just think of all the 60/70s boats out there suffering with the Atomic . You can even use them for mooring blocks any more!
Interesting. Since this has turned into a debate
between A4 and diesel check out this article someone linked to on another thread. It seems to suggest that diesel is the poorest choice for the way we use aux power. I certainly planned to look for diesel on my next sailboat.
between A4 and diesel check out this article someone linked to on another thread. It seems to suggest that diesel is the poorest choice for the way we use aux power. I certainly planned to look for diesel on my next sailboat.
sarcasm??? the spirit of this forum lives
Fred Do you know that there is no, NONE, zip, zelch, Recorded explosion of an A4. I believe it is a myth propogated by those that have spent a small fortune replacing one then realizing that they may look silly to the rest of the world. My fuel consumption is far from historical...there are a lot of C&C 27 s running the same motor with the same setup getting the same fuel economy. I am very over powered in my boat. You will burn closer to a gallon an hour if you are trying to push a thirty five foot boat. I have run my boat at hull speed for 13 hours a day for several days in a row without any issue at all, no exsplosion, as a matter of fact I have towed two newer boats (read diesal) before while they did repairs. Of course I maintain my motor and your sarcasm concerning that is almost idiotic. I think we all do our best to take care of our boats. Anyone that has ever had to repair a diesal motor will tell you that the cost is more than repairing a gas engine. I do run a raw water system so no I don't change the anti-freeze. As for the elctrical system..mine is more than enough. I take care of my boat and have no problems running the fridge or watching tv. I am very sorry that you had bad luck with your A4 but that doesn't make ALL A4's bad. With that logic there is no good car to buy or boat or motor for that fact. The real point is that you obviously like your diesal...if I had a newer boat with a diesal...so would I. But it is a foolish logic to put a $14000.00 engine in a $5000.00 boat. It won't give you a $19000.00 boat. I think the worse part of all this is the fact that he asked for help on how to make his A4 run and instead of help he gets chastized for wanting to fix it. That is not what this forum is for.
Fred Do you know that there is no, NONE, zip, zelch, Recorded explosion of an A4. I believe it is a myth propogated by those that have spent a small fortune replacing one then realizing that they may look silly to the rest of the world. My fuel consumption is far from historical...there are a lot of C&C 27 s running the same motor with the same setup getting the same fuel economy. I am very over powered in my boat. You will burn closer to a gallon an hour if you are trying to push a thirty five foot boat. I have run my boat at hull speed for 13 hours a day for several days in a row without any issue at all, no exsplosion, as a matter of fact I have towed two newer boats (read diesal) before while they did repairs. Of course I maintain my motor and your sarcasm concerning that is almost idiotic. I think we all do our best to take care of our boats. Anyone that has ever had to repair a diesal motor will tell you that the cost is more than repairing a gas engine. I do run a raw water system so no I don't change the anti-freeze. As for the elctrical system..mine is more than enough. I take care of my boat and have no problems running the fridge or watching tv. I am very sorry that you had bad luck with your A4 but that doesn't make ALL A4's bad. With that logic there is no good car to buy or boat or motor for that fact. The real point is that you obviously like your diesal...if I had a newer boat with a diesal...so would I. But it is a foolish logic to put a $14000.00 engine in a $5000.00 boat. It won't give you a $19000.00 boat. I think the worse part of all this is the fact that he asked for help on how to make his A4 run and instead of help he gets chastized for wanting to fix it. That is not what this forum is for.
Rob, I remember that article
and recognize it for being quite a few years old, like maybe 10 and it was written for powerboats. Take that into account. Fred's very experienced, I've never had a 37 year old anything (except kids!), so there are two sides to every coin...
and recognize it for being quite a few years old, like maybe 10 and it was written for powerboats. Take that into account. Fred's very experienced, I've never had a 37 year old anything (except kids!), so there are two sides to every coin...
William!!!!
I NEVER wrote a word of sarcasm. Everything I said was based upon personal experience. Wanna hear my 'three sets of bad points in a row' story. And please, please, PLEASE stop misspelling diesel. And you're the one that is assuming I'm suggesting the expenditure of big-bucks to replace an A4 with a diesel. Wrong. I agreed that an outboard engine is the logical choice. And as a original owner of a 69 Camaro, your logic pertaining to cars would only apply to mustangs!
I NEVER wrote a word of sarcasm. Everything I said was based upon personal experience. Wanna hear my 'three sets of bad points in a row' story. And please, please, PLEASE stop misspelling diesel. And you're the one that is assuming I'm suggesting the expenditure of big-bucks to replace an A4 with a diesel. Wrong. I agreed that an outboard engine is the logical choice. And as a original owner of a 69 Camaro, your logic pertaining to cars would only apply to mustangs!
Car guys
Yes Fred I do not believe that there is any auto out the that is more or less prone to failure (exculding some of the cheap imports. I had a new ford truck that at 2200 miles broke a piston (plays into your mustang theory). They claimed it was a bad casting. It could have happened in anything with a piston. My point is that no engine is going to be perfect 100% of the time. It sounds like you had really bad luck with your A4. Sorry to hear that. The points thing does suck thats why I switched to electronic and that is when my fuel economy greatly improved. I never had problems with the points but I didn't want to either. Do I think that a brand new diesel (note spelling)is a better motor than a 37 year old A4..you bet. Would I like to have a new diesel motor..again, you bet..of course that would be attached to a new boat! You appear to be a car guy and you know that if you talk to a 100 motorheads you will come up with a 100 different motors that they all love and for all sorts of reasons. My dad loves the chevy 350 because it is cheap to rebuild. To each his own I say. My advice to Devian would be to try and start what he has and see what kind of shape it is in. They are simple motors and not hard to work on. If he could get it to a point that it was reliable for a resonable amount of money then I would do that..if not the outboard is the next best. I just remember my first sailboat with the outboard and how I felt it was always a bit of a pain motoring out. But again to some I am sure that is ok. Maybe I just have a thing for old motors Fred...I have a 1948 Willys Jeepster that still has it's orginal motor. I have had lots of guys tell me to put a different motor in it but I like the sound of that old girl as she runs down the road. Ahhhh only a few more months to get to get them both back out! Witer sure can seems long sometimes!
Yes Fred I do not believe that there is any auto out the that is more or less prone to failure (exculding some of the cheap imports. I had a new ford truck that at 2200 miles broke a piston (plays into your mustang theory). They claimed it was a bad casting. It could have happened in anything with a piston. My point is that no engine is going to be perfect 100% of the time. It sounds like you had really bad luck with your A4. Sorry to hear that. The points thing does suck thats why I switched to electronic and that is when my fuel economy greatly improved. I never had problems with the points but I didn't want to either. Do I think that a brand new diesel (note spelling
)is a better motor than a 37 year old A4..you bet. Would I like to have a new diesel motor..again, you bet..of course that would be attached to a new boat! You appear to be a car guy and you know that if you talk to a 100 motorheads you will come up with a 100 different motors that they all love and for all sorts of reasons. My dad loves the chevy 350 because it is cheap to rebuild. To each his own I say. My advice to Devian would be to try and start what he has and see what kind of shape it is in. They are simple motors and not hard to work on. If he could get it to a point that it was reliable for a resonable amount of money then I would do that..if not the outboard is the next best. I just remember my first sailboat with the outboard and how I felt it was always a bit of a pain motoring out. But again to some I am sure that is ok. Maybe I just have a thing for old motors Fred...I have a 1948 Willys Jeepster that still has it's orginal motor. I have had lots of guys tell me to put a different motor in it but I like the sound of that old girl as she runs down the road. Ahhhh only a few more months to get to get them both back out! Witer sure can seems long sometimes!
Rob, just read your link.
He's talking powerboats, not sailboats. All the stuff about power bands is a non issue with sailboat diesels. Just get the power you need and pitch the prop correctly. That said, gas engines (A4) are a whole different story. There is a REASON that NO NEW SAILBOAT has been available with any engine except a diesel for about 25 years.
He's talking powerboats, not sailboats. All the stuff about power bands is a non issue with sailboat diesels. Just get the power you need and pitch the prop correctly. That said, gas engines (A4) are a whole different story. There is a REASON that NO NEW SAILBOAT has been available with any engine except a diesel for about 25 years.
I can't help it! Just a word or two about cars;
Back in the sixties there was an epiphany of sorts in the automotive world, at least as far as racing production cars and engines. Hotrod Magazine used to print the class winners of the national drag racing events. I recall several such results. Every race was won by Chevrolet engines. Even today most racers run 'em. Sure, they build to different power levels but the design is similar. Second point: The engine you see in my car (the big block Chevy) KILLED the Street Hemi.
Back in the sixties there was an epiphany of sorts in the automotive world, at least as far as racing production cars and engines. Hotrod Magazine used to print the class winners of the national drag racing events. I recall several such results. Every race was won by Chevrolet engines. Even today most racers run 'em. Sure, they build to different power levels but the design is similar. Second point: The engine you see in my car (the big block Chevy) KILLED the Street Hemi.
I can't help it! Just a word or two about cars;
Back in the sixties there was an epiphany of sorts in the automotive world, at least as far as racing production cars and engines. Hotrod Magazine used to print the class winners of the national drag racing events. I recall several such results. Every race was won by Chevrolet engines. Even today most racers run 'em. Sure, they build to different power levels but the design is similar. Second point: The engine you see in my car (the big block Chevy) KILLED the Street Hemi.
Back in the sixties there was an epiphany of sorts in the automotive world, at least as far as racing production cars and engines. Hotrod Magazine used to print the class winners of the national drag racing events. I recall several such results. Every race was won by Chevrolet engines. Even today most racers run 'em. Sure, they build to different power levels but the design is similar. Second point: The engine you see in my car (the big block Chevy) KILLED the Street Hemi.
I can't help it! Just a word or two about cars;
Back in the sixties there was an epiphany of sorts in the automotive world, at least as far as racing production cars and engines. Hotrod Magazine used to print the class winners of the national drag racing events. I recall several such results. Every race was won by Chevrolet engines. Even today most racers run 'em. Sure, they build to different power levels but the design is similar. Second point: The engine you see in my car (the big block Chevy) KILLED the Street Hemi. And William, sorry to hear about your Ford truck,,,but. Piston failure from a bad casting is simply assembly incompetence. Somebody should have spotted the bad part and tossed it before it ever came near a block. Of course ALL Chevy truck engines I know of run forged pistons, not cast. (cast is too weak) And Chrysler is running pistons similar to castings in their new Hemi truck engines. Not sure, but I suspect the same weak pistons in car Hemi's too. They just don't learn. TV commercials with baritone-voice announcers will never make up for weak parts. Examples: Look under the rear of those new Tundras and Titan pickups. See how small that differential is? I drive a Duramax! Carries my two ton camper with ease. I've yet to see a camper on the afore mentioned 'trucks'.
Back in the sixties there was an epiphany of sorts in the automotive world, at least as far as racing production cars and engines. Hotrod Magazine used to print the class winners of the national drag racing events. I recall several such results. Every race was won by Chevrolet engines. Even today most racers run 'em. Sure, they build to different power levels but the design is similar. Second point: The engine you see in my car (the big block Chevy) KILLED the Street Hemi. And William, sorry to hear about your Ford truck,,,but. Piston failure from a bad casting is simply assembly incompetence. Somebody should have spotted the bad part and tossed it before it ever came near a block. Of course ALL Chevy truck engines I know of run forged pistons, not cast. (cast is too weak) And Chrysler is running pistons similar to castings in their new Hemi truck engines. Not sure, but I suspect the same weak pistons in car Hemi's too. They just don't learn. TV commercials with baritone-voice announcers will never make up for weak parts. Examples: Look under the rear of those new Tundras and Titan pickups. See how small that differential is? I drive a Duramax! Carries my two ton camper with ease. I've yet to see a camper on the afore mentioned 'trucks'.
For Devian my 2 c on Atomic 4`s
Ive had two of them They both ended up as moorings. Let me ask you where did you get this boat? Was it a present? did you but it? It might be worth $5000 with useable sails and usable rigging and an engine that runs. I wouldnt put another $14000 in it the price of a new diesel into this boat. You dont know if the engine will run or how repairable it is. These things were never any good unless you are a top notch ignition man. Thats why they stopped making them a long time ago. You have other issue here. Not just engine trouble. Keel bolts for 1. old Columbia`s are notorious for bad keel boats, rigging and sails are other issues. and dont forget hull issues, soft decks ect. Heres my 2c worth Get a good marine surveyor. He will tell you if the boat is worth salvaging. If so get a 10HP outboard and put in on the stern, other wise donate to anyone that will take it Good luck your gonna need it.
Ive had two of them They both ended up as moorings. Let me ask you where did you get this boat? Was it a present? did you but it? It might be worth $5000 with useable sails and usable rigging and an engine that runs. I wouldnt put another $14000 in it the price of a new diesel into this boat. You dont know if the engine will run or how repairable it is. These things were never any good unless you are a top notch ignition man. Thats why they stopped making them a long time ago. You have other issue here. Not just engine trouble. Keel bolts for 1. old Columbia`s are notorious for bad keel boats, rigging and sails are other issues. and dont forget hull issues, soft decks ect. Heres my 2c worth Get a good marine surveyor. He will tell you if the boat is worth salvaging. If so get a 10HP outboard and put in on the stern, other wise donate to anyone that will take it Good luck your gonna need it.
Oooh, I forgot he has an old Columbia.
Good point fatcat! Another thing about diesels. I have three of them. Diesel engines are usually expensive because of 'shelf-life'. In other words the makers of these engines have to keep parts available practically forever. That's how long people expect them to last. And keeping a perpetual parts inventory is expensive. I learned that lesson with my 4X4 diesel tractor.
Good point fatcat! Another thing about diesels. I have three of them. Diesel engines are usually expensive because of 'shelf-life'. In other words the makers of these engines have to keep parts available practically forever. That's how long people expect them to last. And keeping a perpetual parts inventory is expensive. I learned that lesson with my 4X4 diesel tractor.
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