Are we too soft or too hard on newbies ??

tweitz

.
Oct 30, 2005
290
Beneteau 323 East Hampton, New York
We have two threads going within this one. The first is the title question, about the etiquette of the list. The second is whether the guy in Maine was incompetent. I won;t comment on the latter, as I don't know enough, but he seems to have lost his boat and made some mistakes. But on the former -- list etiquette -- I tend to agree with Rick D. If someone says he is sailing around the world on his new-to-him 1972 Widget 21, and what is the stick on front, he deserves to be flamed a bit. If someone asks a basic question with not enough information, it is OK to tell him there is not enough information, but the dripping with sarcasm approach, or the "you are a moron" approach do not accomplish the desired objective. Some people will stick with it, but others get embarrassed and don't ask the kind of questions they would really benefit from. Actually, this forum is not the worst I this regard, but the lectures on wasting our bandwidth by asking a question are really kind of ridiculous and counterproductive. One man's opinion.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
What a slimy bastard... I hope the USCG throws every fine they can at him. Thanks for the update, and tell you mom she's a gem. :) I agree with her completely.
 
Jun 19, 2004
512
Catalina 387 Hull # 24 Port Charlotte, Florida
To Answer the Question

Are we too hard or soft on newbies, I guess I can use another question for one to ponder.

If you don't know how to skydive, do you have any business jumping out of an airplane? Or if you don't know how to drive an automobile, do you have any business driving one?

For some reason a lot of people think that all they have to do is get a boat, get on it, point it in the direction they want to go, and hit the gas. Why someone thinks that with little or no experience they can get in a boat and go is a mystery to me. And it scares the crap outta me when I get close to some nimrod like that on the water. I can't get far enough away.

So I think that they should be dealth with sternly. There are some newbies here that don't try to hide the fact, they know that there are very experienced people here with the ability to help them out and they are grateful for that help and sharing of knowledge. Those folks also seem to have some tough skin. The others are weasels and can be treated as such, IMHO :D
 

Tim R.

.
May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Yankee ingenuity

I love how the nylock nut is only on finger tight. Off shore voyage with no tools? What a tool!
 
Jan 27, 2007
383
Irwin 37' center cockpit cleveland ohio
Re: Are we soft or to hard on newbies ??

Nope, not hard enough. Heck, someone could get 8 replies to "What color should I paint my bottom that won't attract whales?" Then you see he is from Michigan and keeps his 22" Venture on a trailer.
Most stuff I ignore and move on, but sometimes, when the air is right, I let em have it.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Nope, not hard enough. Heck, someone could get 8 replies to "What color should I paint my bottom that won't attract whales?" Then you see he is from Michigan and keeps his 22" Venture on a trailer.
Most stuff I ignore and move on, but sometimes, when the air is right, I let em have it.
I raised two boys and have/have had numerous small children for friends. Some have kids of their own now. Those kids can phrase a question better than some of the folk that come here. I try to treat all questions as valid but , some of them , please,! give me a break! like the question quoted somewhere back "I just got a boat with no mast. What size mast should I get?" My inclination was to suggest that he pick up an ax and head for the woods and just cut one. I have small patience with intellectual lazyness.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,438
Oday 25 pittsburgh
Your focus is on Maine Sails post....

The average newbie is blown out with this kind of stuff. The harsh replies that I have seen and the lack of direct support for their questions, leave them on the sidelines just lurking.
The average guy is not sailing from Maine to Florida. He is the local guy that just bought the boat.....
r.w.landau
 

TimCup

.
Jan 30, 2008
304
Catalina 22 St. Pete
Maine Sail (and others)... thanks for your patience...

I'm back to respond to your response! Maine, your answers to my questions, or charges, depending on how you took them, were right on the mark. I was had some concern you'd lash back, but instead I got more info, and no attitude. That's why I love this site!

Sometimes I when I read a post, I visualize it in MY conditions, not anyone elses. I sail almost exclusively in Tampa Bay (Go Rays!), and the west coast of Florida. Much calmer compared to East Coast Atlantic. And soft sandy bottoms to anchor in. I can walk 4 blocks from the house and see 15-20 boats anchored locally, with no one aboard ( I guess they can't be, or they'd be illegal, right?). I perceived you taking shots at thte guy for doing the same thing.

Obviously, the name of the place made me believe it to be more protected than it was. Actual open ocean?? Yeah, set the e-brake & chock the wheels!

Thanks for clarifying.


cup
 
Oct 5, 2008
62
Grampian 23 Bobcaygeon ON
Re: Care for a "newb's" opinion?

The olde saying is, "there are no stupid questions." No mention of stupid answers. Which should lead to "caveat emptor" of sorts.

That a person submits an incorrect answer, at least indicates a willingness to participate; action that quite probably will lead to building their knowledge and growth.

As a forever-newbie I have been dealt with here most charitably, patiently and am smarter now than ever. Thanks to guys like Ross, ITMaster and others whose names just don't pop into my slow old mind.

This site is GREAT and will continue to be so giving everyone a chance to learn not only sailing skills, but more important human relation skills. Can't help the sermon, I'm a recycled HS teacher. :)

Roger, out...
 

ScottD

.
Oct 6, 2008
29
S2 9.2 Mark Twain Lake
As a newbie, I can say that you are all very helpful, and I have not had any bad experiences. Now, I haven't endangered anyone with my ignorance(yet), and I am pretty humble with my lack of knowledge.
I would say you should not be too hard on yourself. This is a fantastic resource, so if the occasional reply is a bit snide, I think on balance the newbie is still better off.
ScottD
 
Oct 18, 2007
68
Macgregor 26D Deltona, FL
From a Newbie.........Not at all to hard

We bought our boat in 2006. Busted up my hand a year ago and are finally getting back on the water - and back into the forums. We (wife and I) are Newbies and appreciate all of your advice. And, in the correct manner, your spanking.

As small boat owners, we are among the vast majority. On the other hand, we have found that small boat owners provide less meaningful information sometimes. A great deal of it is simply "pass on" stuff of little value. As a result, we sometimes have to go play with the big boys.

Here's what we learned about gettig info from the big boys. Some are snobs and won't beliittle themselves talking to a Mac owner without being insulting. So what! Name any sport or profession that does not have those kind of people. Stay in the kiddie pool if your afraid someone might splash water in your face. Most of you people appear to enjoy helping others provided they take the time to help themselves. Here's what we learned about asking for help in the big boy's pool.

1) Don't ask the question until you learned/researched as much as you can. If you are too lazy to at least try to look something up then you deserve "pass on" information.

2) Learn the language of your boat. If you call it a rope thingy rather than a halyard then you are lazier then those who don't research and would not understand the answer anyhow.

3) Ask one question at a time. Don't cause a never-ending thread. Everyone will get tired of it and you won't get the answers.

4) Be specific about what you want to know and the conditions you are refering to. For example, no one can answer "When should I reef" without knowing the boat and sailing area/conditions. For example, here in Florida we get those afternoon thunderstoms all the time. Winds 25-30 MPH. Lot's of driving rain. They are short lived and don't kick up the water much. Every one just keeps on sailing by adjusting the sheets and/or changing course. Heck, you'll be dry an hour after it stops. Not includig info like this in your question just causes endless threads.

So, all you big guys keep doing the best you can with newbies. Spank them and send them back to the kiddie pool when they are to lazy to leard to swim. Just remember, spank with an open hand and not a ball bat.
 

BobM

.
Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Personally, I think that everyone's advice is a valuable contribution to forming the concensus. Also, I'd rather answer a post, employing my limited experience, than leave it unanswered. In my opinion, if only sailors with 30+ years of experience are allowed to answer questions there won't be much activity on this board anymore.
There may be some frustration with newbies in the posts, but it is usually due to the abject lack of detail in the question. Preaching? Perhaps sometimes, but a little preaching is okay in my book if the intent is to prevent the delivery of last rites.

Back to Maine's original story...it amazes me how many times I see somebody with apparently minimal experience planning to sail a new (to them) boat a significant distance with little or no preparation / planning. I am certainly cut from different cloth from them. It took me over two months of saturdays and thousands of dollars to be satisfied that my new (to me) boat was ready for a trip of only 180 miles...which I am happy to report were uneventful for the most part.
 
Jun 7, 2007
515
Hunter 320 Williamsburg
Re: Care for a "newb's" opinion?

Condescending? Perhaps. This fascinating thread epitomizes the presidential election in that people impute favorable things to their candidate and terrible things to the other candidate.

One of the things we try to do is refer newbies to the Archive, but that's awkward because there are thousands of posts. Phil, would it be possible to set up an index atop the Archive of Top Ten Topics and Top Ten Questions? That would be really helpful to all of us.
 

John

.
Jun 3, 2006
803
Catalina 36mkII Alameda CA
Re: Care for a "newb's" opinion?

As a relative newbie (2+ years now), I have turned to this forum for suggestions and advice quite a few times. I have always found the responses to be extremely positive and helpful. Don't change a thing.