Are we too soft or too hard on newbies ??

Dec 8, 2007
478
Irwin 41 CC Ketch LaConner WA
Stillraining, Just for myself I must ask, "How much sail do you fly in forty knots?" My early physics says that energy equals mass times velocity squared. That means that the force of the wind at forty is sixteen times as great as the force of the wind at ten knots.
Not enough last time.

Only 80 maybe 90 square feet of head sail up...no main or mizzen...which made it very nice not having to deal with a boom swinging violently around but not enough drive mid ship to be able to tack...we had to gybe every turn losing to much ground each time in our narrow bay to really make it worth while so we called it quits after a few hours...Running on a deep reach was very very comfortable and might not have been so with anything on the mizzen but it was sure needed to punch upwind me thinks. Those are the kind of things only getting out there and doing it and experimenting in those conditions can teach you..theories are just that..I need to know ..and each boat will be different it that regard also...so you cant just say ...well 20 years ago when we got caught out in our xxxx we did this and it worked...might not work at all in your new yyyy...just MHO


Hope this helps

PS: Eagle Knight flies 1100 square feet of sail I'll let you do the math..;)
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,771
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Newbee

I don't know if you guys are too hard on newbees but you can be tough on each other! I, for a long time, wanted to learn to sail but never had the time. I have a blended family of seven kids most of which have flown the coop. My wife got tired of me dreaming and convinced me to get off my @$$ and do it. I searched yachtworld and a few local dealers. My only experience had been sailing sunfishes and hobiecats, you know, the freebees you get when nesting at a resort in the Carribean. I fell in love with the Catalina 30 mostly because of the room it has. I started with a budget that put me in the late 80's and ended up buying a 95. I hope to get many years from her. I wouldn't consider myself foolish but any newbee trying to sail from Maine to Florida in October leave common sense out the window. I started with a deep respect of the ocean. I took an eleven week Coast Guard Auxilary Safety Cource which I think should be mandatory. It's free, the only cost are the book and tools. Sailing has now become a passion. I can't tell you how much I've learned from this site. You can take from it what you want but I beleive that frequenting these sites makes you a better boater. Experience is knowledge and I thank you for sharing that.

Bob
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Thanks, Stillraining, My math says that you probably had just about the right spread of canvas. Perhaps some of it on the mizzen would have helped on the tacks but I have never tried to sail in winds of that strength. The seas would have been awesome in open water.
 

higgs

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Aug 24, 2005
3,627
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I think the vast majority of us are respectful and attempt to be helpful, which is why I hang around this forum.

If newbies are choose not to ask questions or take advice, then there is no preventing the type of accident that started this discussion.
 
Oct 14, 2005
2,191
1983 Hunter H34 North East, MD
One of the irritants...

that seems to come out on this site is the lack of common sense that some people seem to convey. A little research in one of the more common "Books of Knowledge" (Calder, Casey, etc.) may have yielded the answer, but posting a question is so much quicker.

Maybe it's a reflection on their lack of knowledge resulting from inexperience. The trend today seems to be to jump into sailing on the biggest boat you can afford to mortgage without working your way up through smaller sizes and expanding experiences. Flaming someone for asking a question that stems from that seems like a waste of time and effort.

Mainsail and Ross have "told it like it is" on more than one occasion each and have taken shots for doing so. Why? Only occasionally does the response provide an alternative, much less a better answer. One way or the other, a Newbie has to learn. Written lessons aren't expensive; life's lessons can be...
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
So who is the more stupid here the rookie OR the people in charge who sent him out to fend for himself and were in a position to KNOW how littel experance he had :neutral:
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
And would they have sent him packing in a storm to his death that would have been sad


It is had to believe if they felt the insurance was such and issue they could not have put the boat in a safe inpound place
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: One of the irritants...

I read somewhere that a high school physics student may know more about the moon than an old man who has looked at it for 60 years. There is much to be learned from experience but nobody lives long enough to learn from experience as much as can be derived from a winter of reading the words of men and women telling of their experiences in forty or fifty years of involvement in an endeavour. Before someone plans to sail a boat or build a house or walk the Appalachian Trail or make an apple pie it is a good plan to read a couple of books by those who have done these things or find someone with enough time to tell all that you need to know.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
The people who sent him packing, didn't send him out into the Atlantic ocean... that was his decision... he could have gone elsewhere.

As for being rough on N00bs—in some cases they may get hammered, and in others not so much... a lot of it depends on what they're asking IMHO. Some guys just ask to get hammered...

A good example... some one posts:

I have a new boat without a mast, what size mast should I get for it.
Exactly how can someone respond to that vague and open-ended a question without hammering the guy?? If you're new to a sport, at least learn enough of the basics so you can ask an intelligently worded question, and understand the responses you get back. The more information you can provide on a question, generally the kinder and more useful the responses you're going to get. If you can't be bothered to ask an intelligent question, expect to get hammered. :)
 

Ctskip

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Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
Re: Are we soft or to hard on newbies ??

There is an art to a conversation. Ask a specific question, one can expect a specific answer. The responses will vary to general questions, like, which boat is best for me? Different people , different ways of responding. Just as this site has many (and I mean many) different personalities that cruise here. Most responses are cordial and most are straight forward, uncomplicated answers. Some are complicated, never seeming to answer the question (me thinks they get paid by the word, or like to hear themselves talk).
I think any person with the intellect to use a computer, understands that the responses he will receive to a question, will be varied and is smart enough to be able to take with them, the answer they wish.
Are we hard or soft? Both, at times. Depends on who's responding and the time of the month it is for them.
This is a great site and many people receive valuable information from it. Hard or soft.

My Granddad taught me many things, two of which I'll pass on here.
One) Always consider the source.
Two) You get what you pay for.

If it weren't for the newbie coming in, how would the oldies be old?

Keep it up,
Ctskip
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Some poeples parents taught them enough manners to try and help those who dont yet understand

If answering a nebie question is so anoying to you why bother
 
May 31, 2004
858
Catalina 28 Branford
Although I have been sailing most of my life and have owned my current boat for about 10 years, I consider myself inexperienced. I am happy to share what I have learned over time about my particular boat model and my own (limited) sailing experiences, but I never chime in on things I have only read about.

I have had both positive and negative experiences on this site in asking questions. Most responders have been genuinely helpful, but there have been some who have jumped ugly with me (and others) because they didn't like the question or my response/follow up question. Once, I asked here about battery charging issues, and several posters chimed in with opinions. One responder asked me a specific question about my set up, and I responded. At that point, one of the other posters who had responded to my original question layed into me, accusing me of being lazy and argumentative, and not implementing all of the fine advice I had received.

I figured that guy was just having a bad day so I ignored him. But there have been other times when it is clear that posters have not carefully read the original question/post. These misunderstandings have lead to some very ugly exchanges that only get worse. These situations turn me off, and I assume others as well, both newbie and experienced.

In thinking about how contributors treat newbies, another issue that needs to be considered is how the regulars are perceived in general. It's not just the specific responses to newbie questions that color perception, but the manner in which the regular contributors treat each other and the site that I bet influences whether someone feels welcome to participate.

This site is better than many in that respect. On other sailing websites, the regulars routinely engage in inside jokes and references with each other in the middle of a thread. And sometimes, if an unknown voices an opinion that contradicts the regulars' group thought, that unknown gets shouted down in increasingly ugly terms. I have found that that happens much less frequently here, which is one reason I keep coming back.

We all have a great deal to learn, and the internet is an amazing tool. But it is no different than any other "place" where people meet. Common courtesty goes a long way towards making it a pleasant experience. So the next time you see a question or response that annoys you, my suggestion would be to ignore it rather than get out the flame thrower.

Just one man's opinion....
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Some more photos (Photo Heavy)

This is a very sad ending to a classic Pearson Flyer!! She was hull #64 if the Pearson guys want to remove her from the roster..


These should help put some perspective on things...


Two days ago:


Notice anything missing?:

The Anchor:

Yankee Ingenuity (clevis pins)?:

Green is roughly where he was anchored, yellow dots are moorings and the red line points to the boat:

Another view of where he anchored the boat:

Looking back towards Plaice Cove from Great Boars Head(fairly common conditions for fall/winter):



P.S. The last boat, other than this Pearson Flyer, came out of the water in early September. It has been the only boat in the open ocean area since then..
 
Last edited:
May 6, 2004
916
Hunter 37C Seattle
Just answer the question posted

A recent example is a post requesting recommendations for yards in the NE for a big project on a 35 footer, including a thruster install. I assumed the third reply would be about not needing a thruster and a bunch of talk about taking a class and prop walk working for you. But no, what a surprise, every reply was directly on point and no opinions about the need or nature of the work contemplated, just where to get it done.

Good job folks.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,075
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
A recent example is a post requesting recommendations for yards in the NE for a big project on a 35 footer, including a thruster install. I assumed the third reply would be about not needing a thruster and a bunch of talk about taking a class and prop walk working for you. But no, what a surprise, every reply was directly on point and no opinions about the need or nature of the work contemplated, just where to get it done.

Good job folks.
Some folks are here to help; other here to serve their egos (apparently).
The difference is usually obvious.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
A recent example is a post requesting recommendations for yards in the NE for a big project on a 35 footer, including a thruster install. I assumed the third reply would be about not needing a thruster and a bunch of talk about taking a class and prop walk working for you. But no, what a surprise, every reply was directly on point and no opinions about the need or nature of the work contemplated, just where to get it done.

Good job folks.
I would never try to talk someone out of installing a bow thruster after some of the docking experiences I have had. About the time I lose steerage a gust of wind will blow the bow to the left or right when I am trying to back into my slip . Somedays I make it look like I know what I am doing and some days I can't get it right. If there is nothing for me to run into I will manhandle the durn thing into her berth. ;D
 
Jan 24, 2008
293
Alerion Express 28 Oneida Lake, NY
Maine Sail...
In your post #33, one of the tight shots of the bow has the Maine registration numbers and seal on both port and starboard - in the next shot, they're both missing.
???
Paul
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Yes the reg was peeled off

Maine Sail...
In your post #33, one of the tight shots of the bow has the Maine registration numbers and seal on both port and starboard - in the next shot, they're both missing.
???
Paul
Yup! He came down yesterday and removed them because he planned to leave the boat there for the NH taxpayers to clean up.

Don't worry the USCG has all the necessary info to track him down including the hull# and his Maine registration numbers. They were down there and are investigating it.

The locals are fairly pissed off about it!

Gotta love my 65 year old mother.. (I DID NOT WRITE THIS SHE DID)

My Funny Mother said:
Wed. am--went down and took two final pictures ---word is he is leaving it there and walking away from it. i guess it's the tax payers issue now as it is on a state beach-----thank God a guy like this never made it out there on the sea to be a coast guard calamity and a danger to other sailors.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Yes the reg was peeled off

I should think that besides the clean-up cost he will also face some fines for abandoning the boat on public land etc. etc. etc.