America's Cup 35...Bermuda.

Kings Gambit · Dec 5, 2014

Gunni said:
The Golden Gate Yacht Club is the affiliate for Oracle TeamUSA. I never saw any significant grass roots enthusiasm for this next-generation sailboat racing in the US. Instead I heard lots of sailors grousing about the break with AC "tradition" and the lack of similarity with their own boat. The Bay-area media and local wags were falling over themselves in declaring AC 34 a flop even before the Louis Vuitton finished up. The Giants were getting more press.. These fast cats have the potential to bring sailboat racing to the ADD sports viewing public and if Ellison had to go to Bermuda to find a happy, receptive host venue, what does that say about US sail racing?

Well, to that I might say that Los Angeles still refuses to build a stadium at taxpayer expense for an NFL team to occupy; but there are nevertheless millions of football fans in this city who would like a home team. I don't think it says anything about the level of interest in AC racing in the US; maybe more about the amount of money a municipality or a state [or other government entity] is willing to throw at it.

Kings Gambit · Dec 5, 2014

Yeah-- well it won't happen here!

slaume · Dec 5, 2014

Hamilton Harbor in Bermuda would make an excellent venue for the new America's cup racing. Beautiful weather, water, steady winds and no fog. Hamilton is a modern city with all sorts of accommodations and an excellent public transport system. The Royal Bermuda Yacht Club has been hosting yacht races for a very long time and it is a sailors island. Bermuda is easy to get to for Europeans as well as Americans. I am sure money enters into all of this as well. Bermuda is funded by banking and tourism. They would do very well by hosting this event and I am sure there were some serious incentives offered in order to bring the race there. Not matter what the reasoning behind the decision it will make for a extremely nice racing venue, Steve.

Scott T-Bird · Dec 5, 2014

For all that it really matters to anybody, Bermuda will be fine. I'll look forward to the YouTube replays.

Benny17441 · Dec 5, 2014

Well since they are breaking with tradition why not go all out and offer the cup event to be hosted by the country who becomes the highest bidder. Let them build spectator stadiums and take the dog and pony show all over the world. The teams are no longer representatives of any country in particular so take the amateur yacht clubs out of the way and let the professional promoters handle it. Wrestling and Sailing may have more in common than we think.

Kings Gambit · Dec 5, 2014

Benny17441 said:
Well since they are breaking with tradition why not go all out and offer the cup event to be hosted by the country who becomes the highest bidder. Let them build spectator stadiums and take the dog and pony show all over the world. The teams are no longer representatives of any country in particular so take the amateur yacht clubs out of the way and let the professional promoters handle it. Wrestling and Sailing may have more in common than we think.

Is there any way that AC racing could be considered "Corinthian racing" these days? Somehow I doubt it, although I have imagined that it was when the NYC defended the Cup.

slaume · Dec 5, 2014

For those of you who seem to have a problem with the venue, how do you feel about the racing?

America's Cup used to be about a country producing it's own boat. The boat and sails were designed and build in the defending or challenging country. It was then crewed by sailors from that same country and sailed to the race. We have gotten a very long way from that at this point. The boats and the crews are now an international affair and the boats would break apart before they left the boundary or the country of origin, if they tried to do an ocean crossing. Aside from the fact that there are no accommodations on them to support the life of a crew. They are now harbor racing day sailors. Very fast ones but not all that seaworthy. They make for spectacular racing if speed is what matters. As match racers they suck. The twelve meters were the last of the true match racing boats and that is a shame. The races have gone from a tactical game to drag races. While it is rather exciting to see boats flying at very high speeds, that isn't really a match race if they can't maneuver and cover each other. It is all speed and no style these days, Steve.

Kings Gambit · Dec 5, 2014

slaume said:
For those of you who seem to have a problem with the venue, how do you feel about the racing?

America's Cup used to be about a country producing it's own boat. The boat and sails were designed and build in the defending or challenging country. It was then crewed by sailors from that same country and sailed to the race. We have gotten a very long way from that at this point. The boats and the crews are now an international affair and the boats would break apart before they left the boundary or the country of origin, if they tried to do an ocean crossing. Aside from the fact that there are no accommodations on them to support the life of a crew. They are now harbor racing day sailors. Very fast ones but not all that seaworthy. They make for spectacular racing if speed is what matters. As match racers they suck. The twelve meters were the last of the true match racing boats and that is a shame. The races have gone from a tactical game to drag races. While it is rather exciting to see boats flying at very high speeds, that isn't really a match race if they can't maneuver and cover each other. It is all speed and no style these days, Steve.

Well, I had always heard that competitive racing is an interplay of boat speed, tactics, and coursemanship. The only one of those that one can enhance quickly with gobs of money is boat speed. So, that's where we are and where we'll likely remain. The only way out is class racing with class rules that prohibit excessive expenditures on go-fast improvements relating to gear. [I realize that AC racing is a form of class racing now.] I admit I did not like seeing sailboaters in crash helmets during the AC races last [2013] summer in SF.

Benny17441 · Dec 5, 2014

I have been watching the Volvo Ocean races. A couple of nights ago Team Vestas Wind hit a reef in the middle of the Indian Ocean doing 15+knots. The current leg is from South Africa to Abu Dahbi. They have a course race when they depart a port and then on to open ocean racing. These are state of the art boats capable of hitting close to 20 knots in open waters. Head sail changes and tactics make for spirited racing . have found a substitute for the AC.

shemandr · Dec 5, 2014

Kings Gambit said:
Is there any way that AC racing could be considered "Corinthian racing" these days? Somehow I doubt it, although I have imagined that it was when the NYC defended the Cup.

It's been a long time since the AC was anything close to corinthian racing. Maybe it never was. There's a lot of romanticism about this competition but I think it's more correct to regard it as a high priced design competition sailed by professional sailors, and a game of aristocrats. If you have not already done so, and if you want a historical prospective of the competition please read Temple to the Wind. You will gain the prospective that there is really nothing new going on about the cup.
Love it, hate it, but the cup is and always was about money.

slaume · Dec 6, 2014

I have no problem with wealthy consortiums spending ungodly amounts of money on a Cup campaign. The problem is the boats they have moved to. Twelve meters are beautiful boats that are very well suited to a tactical race. While they may not be capable of ocean crossings in their race configuration, they do serve a useful life after the current cup series is over. Older boats are used for training and many of them are available for charter. There are places where you can go out with a bunch of other tourists on a couple of 12 meter boats and have a mock race for a day. That will never be an option on a foiling AC72. An AC72 with foils and a wing sail is kind of like a crazy racing stallion that is extremely fast but you can't even get it in the barn and it is going to try to kill you every chance it gets. The only difference is that it can't be used for breeding purposes and you can't take it out and shoot it.

The money and tech hurdles have also severely limited the field of competing nations. Even the wealthy have their limits.

The Cup used to be a good platform for improving boat design for the rest of us. How are wing sails ever going to benefit the rest of us? Wing keels are a great example of the trickle down technology. The idea of some yahoo with money at the helm of a foiling boat capable of 50 knots is scarier than the motor heads with the go fast boats. In a small one design package it could be a lot of fun but not on large cruising boats.

It is interesting to see what has happened with the Volvo boats becoming a one design class. It is sad in a way but makes for very interesting well matched racing. The boats also seem to be holding up a bit better when they have all been designed for the purpose and no one is trying to get to the very edge of what will survive. The story will play out when they get to the Southern Ocean again but so far so good. Unless you crash a reef.

I suppose the AC is a better venue for experimentation. Unlike the Volvo race; the conditions can be regulated and someone is less likely to die if things go badly in a harbor setting with rescue people close at hand.

Weather I like it or not the AC72s have made the AC more appealing to the masses and that is not a bad thing. I just wish they did more match racing, Steve.

Scott T-Bird · Dec 8, 2014

I'm not crazy about AC match racing because it seems that the races are the same, over and over again. It's all about the start and cover and that's it. Even the 12 meter class, had that drawback, although I agree that racing on those with several boats on a course, would be amazing fun. In SF there were far more lead changes than normal, which I think had something to do with the unfamiliarity of the boats and the learning curve. That isn't likely to always be the case unless the boats are constantly evolving, which I suppose could be possible.

I prefer the Volvo in-shore races because the lead boat can't cover everybody. There is more to tactics when the leader can't control the entire race.

mm2347 · Dec 15, 2014

The book "The Billionaire and the Mechanic" by Julian Guthrie covers a lot of in and outs of the America's Cup race as well as Larry Ellison. The race, people, history of AC, behind-the-scenes, and the $$$$ it takes to race or host a AC race. An enjoyable book for anyone and more so if interested in sailboats.

Scott T-Bird · Dec 15, 2014

Gunni said:
The Golden Gate Yacht Club is the affiliate for Oracle TeamUSA. I never saw any significant grass roots enthusiasm for this next-generation sailboat racing in the US. Instead I heard lots of sailors grousing about the break with AC "tradition" and the lack of similarity with their own boat. The Bay-area media and local wags were falling over themselves in declaring AC 34 a flop even before the Louis Vuitton finished up. The Giants were getting more press.. These fast cats have the potential to bring sailboat racing to the ADD sports viewing public and if Ellison had to go to Bermuda to find a happy, receptive host venue, what does that say about US sail racing?

When you think about it, how many avenues of sports "racing", other than a few forms of auto racing, really attract much attention at all? "We" (the collective sports audience) only watch racing of various forms (track, swimming, speed skating, ski racing) during the Olympics and hardly anybody can name any of the principal athletes. Occasionally there is a decent audience for Tour de France, but generally, nobody really watches racing of any form, except for NASCAR. You can make the argument that NASCAR really touches the root of our culture more so than any other sport that features competition among individuals. You can't really characterize the sports viewing public as ADD, when sports viewing is overwhelmingly traditional in its support of mainstream team sports, i.e. football, baseball, basketball, and to a lesser extent, hockey. That's where the loyalty overwhelmingly resides.

Let's face it, 'racing' is typically only enjoyed on a spectator level by people who participate or used to participate. I don't think there was ever anything "traditional" about AC racing. It has evolved over the years just like it always has. People my age may think that the 12-meter class is traditional, but it wasn't when they raced on J-class yachts before that. I think the large cats on foils at super speed is great; however, I'm not crazy about the match racing format. But maybe that's just me.

I'm probably like most sailors in that given the choice between sailing on a fine afternoon, or sitting in front of the TV watching sailboat racing, guess which activity wins hands down every single time? Like most of us whom enjoy active participation, I'm a participant, not a spectator. I never catch more than a glimpse of just about any sporting event, even though I always have an interest in learning the results. It has always been the same way with ski racing for me. Maybe that's my form of ADD. If I have something else to do - like choosing between actually skiing, or staying inside to watch a ski race, I can't sit still and watch the sporting event. Heck, if I have a home improvement project or a boat project that is pressing, even that will keep me away from the television or even the arena.

I guess my summary is that there are team sports which are a perfect fit for spectators, but individual sports are generally only followed closely (but not necessarily watched), by participants, not spectators ... and us participants are much fewer in numbers.