Almost Ready
- Thread starter rgranger
- Start date
- Status
Yes! I got it. Sorry. The question mark icon was probably the wrong one to use. I should have used this one...
Thanks again,
r
There is also supposed to be a pair of tension rods or straps from the top of the mast of your engine hoist to the bottom frame. Otherwise, lifted loads put a big moment (bending, or torque) on that little connection on the bottom of the mast, and with such a short distance between the bolts and the edge of the little baseplate welded to the bottom of the mast, it's no wonder things are bending.
Just don't want you to get a nasty surprise when that mast pops its bolts or folds over with a suspended load.
p.s. There are types that don't use tension members in the back, but the bottom connection is much heavier, with a wide bolt pattern, but yours isn't one of them.
Edit: It looks like there are holes in the mast and in the base for such tension members (straps, probably).
Just don't want you to get a nasty surprise when that mast pops its bolts or folds over with a suspended load.
p.s. There are types that don't use tension members in the back, but the bottom connection is much heavier, with a wide bolt pattern, but yours isn't one of them.
Edit: It looks like there are holes in the mast and in the base for such tension members (straps, probably).
t-kanz
Thanks!!!! You must be correct. I was trying to understand why a 3 tonne hoist would buckle at only 1200 lbs ... and the bulb (probably half the mass) was still sitting in the cradle.
I have some winch cable and turn buckles in the shed. I can make some tension wires that should do the job nicely.
Thanks!!!! You must be correct. I was trying to understand why a 3 tonne hoist would buckle at only 1200 lbs ... and the bulb (probably half the mass) was still sitting in the cradle.
I have some winch cable and turn buckles in the shed. I can make some tension wires that should do the job nicely.
Is that some sort of giant blob of ballast on the end of that keel? That's a pretty massive lump, if that's what it is. I always thought it was just a large steel fin onna hinge on those B26's.
Wouldn't have guessed it from the literature.
Wouldn't have guessed it from the literature.
Attachments
Yep! It is a beastly thing. I'd estimate at least 40% of the keel's mast is located in the bottom 18". I also learned yesterday that the only way to get to the nuts that secure the keel winch is through the bottom of the keel trunk (i.e. with the keel lowered or off of the boat). So I'm going to put in a new break winch NOW while I have the keel off.
I can't help but wonder how stiff this boat would be if you modified it with a carbon mast? The righting moment would be tremendous.
Today I made some home made peel away and slathered up the bottom of the boat
(see link for recipe)
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=869054&highlight=homemade peel
It looks like the P.O. had covered up several layers of mostly chipped and old ablative paint with simple exterior grade house paint. I guess he was trying to make the boat pretty for a quick sale. Anyway, I'll blast all that peel away and old paint off tomorrow with the pressure washer and make preparations to put some non-ablative good stuff on. I have two gallons of epoxy barrier coat I'm going to put on first.
Whoa! Before a bunch of you'uns start cautioning me about using a pressure washer on my boat.... I'll be careful
and I wont chip my gel coat by getting too close and I wont sever a finger or toe either... 
I first got a sense that it wasn't just a plate when I saw this pic of yours. It took a couple of looks before I realized it was the keel hanging off the hoist, and that big lump that makes it look like Thor's hammer is some ballast.
And by the way, be careful using wire rope to secure that hoist. From what I can see of a side elevation of the hoist, there's at least a 3:1 if not 4:1 mechanical advantage between the lifted load and the original restraining tension members. That means if you're lifting 3 tons with a short boom, you'll have 9-12 tons tension force shared by those two (absent) members, so do keep that in mind when you make some sort of replacement. A sudden and catastrophic failure can do a lot of damage or kill someone.
And by the way, be careful using wire rope to secure that hoist. From what I can see of a side elevation of the hoist, there's at least a 3:1 if not 4:1 mechanical advantage between the lifted load and the original restraining tension members. That means if you're lifting 3 tons with a short boom, you'll have 9-12 tons tension force shared by those two (absent) members, so do keep that in mind when you make some sort of replacement. A sudden and catastrophic failure can do a lot of damage or kill someone.
Attachments
Thanks...
I emailed the guy who i purchased the hoist from to see if maybe he had the braces laying around his shed or some such thing.
If not, I thought I could also bolt chain. The keel weighs 1200 lbs so... I should be able to make something strong enough to give me a large margin of safety.
Next will be sand blasting that succor. That will be a new experience for me. Looking forward to it in a sort of Tim Allen sort of way.
Every fall one boatyard or another power washes my bottom.Whoa! Before a bunch of you'uns start cautioning me about using a pressure washer on my boat.... I'll be careful
I'm waiting to see what you do with that keel - which looks a little rough. It is a beast! It's a nicer looking boat than the brochure indicates based on your pics.
Right
There was a ridiculous thread about 6 months ago where the "safer than thou" crowd got on a jag about pressure washers. It ended with claims of lost fingers etc.
She is a nice boat. The fiberglass is at least a quarter inch thick. The chain plates are beefy. The interior dry (it has been raining and the inside is still dry). Almost standing head room.
The rudder is a strange design. I'll have to snap some pics and post those. It retracts into the cockpit. I don't really know how to describe it but it is very clever.
The keel is full of barnacles right now. Once I have her cleaned off (sandblasted), I'm going to fair it up with some thickened epoxy, then barrier coat, then a sheet of glass. The pivot hole is sound and the bulb is solid. The worst areas are the leading edge and the portion of the trailing edge where the winch cable attaches. I think I can reshape those areas with some J.B. weld (marine grade). I'm optimistic.
I think when I'm done, I'll have a $8000 boat, sitting on a $1000 trailer with a $900 outboard, and I got the whole thing for $3000.
I'm going to get her sea worthy this spring and sail the hell out of her. Then next winter I can start detailing her.
The main sail looks like it has never been used. Absolutely brand spanking new. I have not yet unrolled the head sail to look it over yet.
r
Thor's Hammer
T-Kanz
Thanks again for the advice on the tension rods. I added some chain (see pic 1) and the hoist worked like a charm. The chain is 1/2" and rated at 4800lb. So with two pieces holding up the arm, I think I have engineered a sufficient margin of safety. The weak part is the lag bolt I have at the top of the arm holding the chain. I might go get something stronger and replace it.
So here are some more pics of this crazy keel.
#2 is port view of keel
#3 is the leading edge that needs some attention
#4 is the trailing edge that also needs some attention
The rest are some random shots.
T-Kanz
Thanks again for the advice on the tension rods. I added some chain (see pic 1) and the hoist worked like a charm. The chain is 1/2" and rated at 4800lb. So with two pieces holding up the arm, I think I have engineered a sufficient margin of safety. The weak part is the lag bolt I have at the top of the arm holding the chain. I might go get something stronger and replace it.
So here are some more pics of this crazy keel.
#2 is port view of keel
#3 is the leading edge that needs some attention
#4 is the trailing edge that also needs some attention
The rest are some random shots.
Attachments
I would get a pneumatic needle scaler or chisel to chip off the heavy scale before sand blasting, it will save alot of work blasting. Wire brushing and grinding tend to burnish the scale in places and not remove it, then it flakes off later. Also think about coating the blasted keel, with in minutes after blasting, with a good rust converter before the epoxy, there will be some iron oxide left in the pores.
Fred Villiard
Fred Villiard
Thanks Fred.
I spent a summer as a kid working one of those pneumatic scalers. I was a swab on a tug boat based in the port of Iberia....and I'd work my way around the deck, chissle, then prime with phosphoric acid, and then paint. Seemed as soon as I worked all the way around, it was time to start again. Not a fun job but I got to work outside all day.
The rust remover/converter suggestion is exactly what the websites I've read on this suggest so I think you are right on the money there also.
I'll post more pics as I make some progress.
Next job! ... find a compressor
I have a 5 hp 15 cfm @ 130psi and that barely kept up with the blaster, if I had it to do again, would rent a medium size gas powered on 20 or 30 cfm. You also want a good dryer. I got two large dessicant ones from harbor freight and series them, used 5o feet of 1/2" copper between the compressor and the driers to cool the air down. If you get a little bit of moisture in the blast gun you'll have one heck of a mess, don't ask how I know.
Fred Villiard
Fred Villiard
Hmmm..... I wonder if "toasting" the sand in the oven before you use it would help?
That is a good idea, however the problem is the water vapor in the compressed air. When the pressure drops really fast at the nozzle of the blaster the cooling is also so rapid that the water vapor condenses and gums up the sand. That's why there are dryers or water separators right at the tank before the air hose. They allow expansion and water separation into a glass bowl (for later draining) or into molecular sieves. That water buggers up paint jobs too. Of course if you would all move to California you would find we don't have that thing called humidity out here. Oh wait we were lost in the fog this week end and almost ran into the Bay Bridge. But I digress.
The "machine" bolt you are using actually could be ok. Best if it is a Grade 8. Should have a shear strength of 125k psi (ksi). Put a nut on it in case it bends so that shackle can't slip off. I'm more concerned with that cast shackle you are using. It is in pure tension at the cross section on either side of the screw. The ratings for those things are without internal defects. Cast stuff can break before it bends, so no warning. Maybe a better choice would be a forged stainless one. Just be careful especially when you are walking next to it. Things can go south really fast.
Allan
What's going on with the cable connection? Is that pair of flat bars supposed to pivot as the centerboard is winched up, or is it fixed in place?
As bad as that CB looks, I don't think it would take all that much to clean it up once the rust is off. Perhaps build up that chewed area where the cable attaches with weld and grind it smooth, or cut it out and weld on a new piece, ground smooth after the fact.
It does not move when I push on it. The through bolt holding the plates to the keel is very tight. The cable was connected with a simple pin through the cable's eye splice with two washers on each side and a simple cotter pin holding the through pin. It did not seem as sturdy as I would have liked. I'm going to replace it with a threaded bolt and a nut.
I'm guessing the flat iron was added after the cable hole rusted out.
I agree. There is a LOT of good metal left and the most important parts ... the pivot hole and the lead bulb... are solid.
There is a welding shop only two miles from my house... and ... I've always wanted to learn to arc weld anyway. So if need be, I might play around with that for a while. I'm optimistic.
- Status