Adding a bigger hose around existing to seal odors

[efimki]

I've got a 2005 Beneteau 373, and I'm planning to replace most of the sanitation hoses with Raritan Saniflex.

Unfortunately the pump-out hose is attached to the bottom of the holding tank, and I can't reach it easily without taking the wall out or cutting a big hole.

I imagine that this is a more stinky one as it is filled with stuff any time holding tank is not completely empty.

I'm wondering if it could help to put a bigger hose around it (so, real hose has 2" O.D. and outer hose will be 2.5" I.D.) and seal the ends?

Does it make any sense or is it just a waste of time and money?
If it makes sense, what hose should I put around?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If you “can’t reach it easily” (the end), it may not help much depending on how close to the fitting you can get.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Pictures?
The idea sounds intriguing.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[dlochner]

You'll want to use sanitation hose that doesn't permeate. One problem will be finding some in the 2.5" ID. Hose is typically 1 or 1.5" ID.

A second issue is the bend radius of the larger hose. It may not make the same bends as the current smaller diameter can make.

You could use something like exhaust hose, a more expensive option at ~$16/foot.

Builders do stupid things that make owners' lives miserable. To replace the pumpout hose on my Sabre, I had to remove 2 locker floors, the batteries, and the HW tank. Of course once I was there is was a very easy job as everything was in the open and I found a couple of lost tools.

 

[efimki]

I'll take photos the next time I'm on the boat, but generally speaking I likely will be unable to reach the bottom connector to completely seal the outer hose.

The best thing I might be able to do is to master some kind of (rubber?) gasket between hoses to make it somewhat closed.

Would this completely defeat the purpose or would it still reduce the smell?
So far I didn't find any 2.5" ID sanitation hoses, only heavy-duty exhaust or light-duty PVC with PVC having a huge price advantage.

 

[thinwater]

You need to replace the hoses. This is also why you buy top quality hose.

However, as a temporary expedient, wrap the hose tightly and smoothly with aluminum duct tape. Yes, I know this sounds like a cheesy shortcut that can't work, but in fact, I've tested it on permeated hoses, and it does work, and it can hold up well for at least a few years. It just looks bad. Just as aluminum-coated Mylar balloons can hold helium for a long time, gasses cannot pass through even the thinnest of metal films. It can also be a useful diagnostic tool.

Good luck with your boat yoga!

 

[ToddS]

I'm very interested in your project, as I have a 2004 373 (3 cabin version), that I've owned for 2 years and have decided that this coming spring I'll be replacing my sanitation hoses with Sani-Flex as well. (Coincidentally, it looks like I live about 10 miles from you). I haven't really scoped out exactly what I'm up against in terms of what's easy or difficult to reach and exactly how many feet of hose I'll need in this project... no details yet. I keep my boat in Bourne... so too far to just swing by to check this out until spring when I go down to start prepping for spring launch. I've got an over-abundance of projects on my to-do-list for this coming spring, so I'm hoping this one ends up being less-work than anticipated, rather than more... but I'm also seasoned enough to realize it rarely goes that way. In my mind, my hoses all enter/exit from the top of the tank... but I can't say that for sure, as in my 2 years of ownership I've been lucky enough to have zero sanitation projects or problems (other than the faint but increasing odor issue which I've ignored until now). Is your boat a 2 cabin version or 3? If 2, I wonder if the holding tank configuration is different. I know the 2 cabin boats have a larger shower area, but I picture the area between the toilet and the vanity/sink being the same, but who knows. I'll check and take pictures/measurements when I'm at the boat next time... but that's not for a couple more months. Good luck in the meantime if you get started before I do!

 

[Richard19068]

... as a temporary expedient, wrap the hose tightly and smoothly with aluminum duct tape.

This does work. You can get the foil tape at the big box hardware stores. When I wrapped mine I made sure it did not contact the stainless hose clamps just to make sure there was no kind of odd dissimilar metal problem.

 

[efimki]

thinwater@ The aluminum duct tape sounds like a simple-ish short-term work around that I'm going to try if I can't get my other plan to work.
I've rubbed paper towel on the hoses, and some appear to smell a little, although not outrageously so.

Right after posting this message I've realized that I might be able to "surgically" cut out a piece of the wall right in front of the connector underneath the holding tank, replace the hose, and caulk/glue the wall back in. I need to wait until spring pump out before trying that to avoid nasty spills though.

ToddS@: That's pretty cool! I've had the boat hauled out in Westport, MA last winter, but moved up to Hull in the summer and hauled it out right there, which makes it easier to do some work on the weekends.

The boat is 2 cabin, so the head is to the left side of the door, the holding tank is right behind it and vanity is to the right.
All hoses are pretty accessible except for the pump out one.
As luck would have it my project got prompted by pump out port seizing shut, me ordering a replacement, and trying to figure out how to do it. I've had to remove medicine cabinet to get access to its upper hose clamps, but lower hose clamps are barely visible through 1 inch opening between the wall and holding tank.

 

[ToddS]

@efimki - The more I think about it, the more I think my setup is going to be identical to yours... I seem to remember only 2 hoses/fittings on the top of the tank (if my memory serves me correctly... which is NOT always the case), which would be the fill and the vent... leaving the discharge at the bottom. I'll see in spring for sure. I wonder if by detaching everything from the top of the tank, whether you could buy yourself enough room to lift/jack the tank up high enough to reach under it from the front/wall access panel between the head and the tank. Just thinking out loud here though, and without seeing your (or my) setup it's tough for me to remember how much room is there to reach a hand in... from your description it sounds like NOT MUCH. Oh well... take pictures/measurements and share your successes and/or failures, and I'll do the same in a couple months and maybe we can learn from each other. I think some 373s were fitting with a macerator pump from the factory and those (mine does not have one) have a third fitting on top of the tank that goes (via the pump) overboard. Part of me wonders if that port in the tank could be plumbed to the deck pump out fitting, scrapping the bottom/unreachable one, but I'm guessing the pickup tube coming from the top is not nearly as good at getting the very bottom of the tank cleaned out. I also wonder if rigid PVC would be useful in making some of the tighter twists/turns down there, switching to saniflex after that first foot-or-two... can't say without seeing it though.

 

[Bob S]

I would suggest removing the holding tank. It makes removing and snaking the new hoses much easier. It also gives you a chance to thoroughly clean the tank. I found it easier to attach the pump out hose to the tank while it was out then install it back in one piece.

 

[efimki]

@Bob S - thanks for suggestion and for the picture!
I'll take pictures on my boat next time I get to it.
Removing the tank would definitely make plumbing easier, but how did you remove it?
Did you have to remove a front wall (with the door) in order to remove the holding tank?

On my boat the door is definitely smaller than the tank, but the wall appears to be somehow screwed in from the back.

 

[Bob S]

This is the aft head on my 393, there’s a panel held in place by 6 screws. Remove the screws and lift up the panel. There isn’t a door on my panel. The tank is just strapped in place. Haven’t been on a 373 but I can’t imagine they were built so that it couldn’t be removed. Good luck

 

[ToddS]

@efimki - I'm assuming yours looks more or less like this one (see photo link below). This one isn't mine... found the picture on the internet though, and it looks just like my 2004 3-cabin 373 with the holding tank in the rounded-rectangle compartment just above/behind the toilet in this photo:

https://images.yachtcloser.com/6668262/5298928_20150813101747657_1_XLARGE-980x652.jpg

 

[dLj]

Builders do stupid things that make owners' lives miserable. To replace the pumpout hose on my Sabre, I had to remove 2 locker floors, the batteries, and the HW tank. Of course once I was there is was a very easy job as everything was in the open and I found a couple of lost tools.

You got it easier than my brother. He called me up saying how he couldn't figure out any way to get his hose on his holding tank. As he is not very mechanically inclined, I kinda blew him off, but in the spirit of brotherly love, I did go to his boat convinced it would be a simple matter of just figuring it out.

Well, he was right. Between the two of us we finally got it on - well enough - but we would have either had to remove a major section of a structural bulk- head, rebuilding with an access panel or cut a hole in the hull and then patch it! Holy cow! Obviously it was put together during construction with no thought of future maintenance!

dj

 

[NYSail]

The holding tank isn’t behind the panel behind the toilet? The 423 has a removable panel.... tank is behind it mounted on the wall and is easily removable. I know beneteau wasn’t overly considerate with things but I find it hard to believe you can’t get to tank. Btw..... I am removing and changing hoses right now. Beneteau also thought it a good idea to strap wires onto hoses using zip ties in areas you can’t easily reach......

 

[efimki]

@ToddS - indeed, my setup looks exactly like https://images.yachtcloser.com/6668262/5298928_20150813101747657_1_XLARGE-980x652.jpg

Unfortunately the door opening is smaller than the tank, so I can't remove the tank through the door.

 

[NYSail]

Can you remove the top hoses then lift tank up enough to service lower hose? Personally it is were my boat I would do surgery to make it accessible. I’ve done it before and I will do it again! Makes life easy.....

wrapping the existing hose or just putting a larger one over it will not help the smell.... the hose is done and needs to be replaced.

good luck!

 

[efimki]

@NYSail I CAN remove the top hoses, but it looks like their fittings will still prevent the tank from lifting high enough.
I'm thinking about cutting out the bottom section of the panel (at red lines) and re-attaching it afterwards.
I agree that anything other than replacing the hose is just a temporary measure, but I also need to wait until the boat is on the water to pump out the bottom hose before detaching it.

 

[NYSail]

I would remove at least that piece then put a nice piece of wood or plastic board of some sort in its place with screws for future removal. Access on a boat is king! does your tank have a clean out port like the one in my picture??