That's what I thought as well.Blue actually had room, but not time. Had they stayed up they would have crossed cleanly, but have been OCS. That's why I suggested big ease of both sails earlier to burn time when they had the opportunity to do so.
That's what I thought as well.Blue actually had room, but not time. Had they stayed up they would have crossed cleanly, but have been OCS. That's why I suggested big ease of both sails earlier to burn time when they had the opportunity to do so.
From a rules standpoint it doesn't really matter whether they are close hauled. At the start the same rules apply to boats regardless of how close they are to the wind. The only way it matters is that if you're coming in to a start and you're not close hauled, it's a pretty good indication that you're barging and extra vulnerable to being blocked out.If Blue had been close hauled (does this really matter for this question?)
Pretty much. A leeward boat can't change her course in such a way that Windward would need to hit the RC to avoid hitting Leeward. If Leeward comes in on a steady course approaching the RC, then Windward can't try to fit in there without breaking rule 11 (windward/leeward). But if Leeward changes course after they're overlapped with the RC, leaving less than a boat width in between, then they're not giving Windward "room to keep clear", so they are breaking rule 16.1. Note that the "room to keep clear" only provides room to avoid the mark / RC; it does not provide Windward with room to stay below the starting line. The Leeward boat can certainly come up and force Windward over the start line, just not into the RC.Would she need to be so close to the line or boat as to be unable to turn up without hitting the boat before she could claim they gave her no room?
Starting line boats are typically anchored in place, and are held by the push of the breeze. They do move slightly as the breeze shifts.Just out of curiosity, does the start boat ( or whatever you call it) have any requirement to get out of the way in a case where they are about to get rammed?
I thought it looked like they moved out of the way before Blue and Camelot got into it.
Greg
Sometimes, going slower is faster!That's what I thought as well.
It is always faster to not break you or your boat.Sometimes, going slower is faster!
Oops. You beat me to it. "break YOU or your boat". No more beer for me...It is always faster to not break you or your boat.
-Will (Dragonfly)
'Outbarged'! Now that's a new one for me!So after all this discussion about rights and room at the boat end, I was outbarged in light winds this Wednesday night. I crept down a little early from upwind and was making a nice turn around the boat leaving me room to go under two boats approaching close hauled if I had to and all of a sudden I had a boat approaching above me with the intent of going between me and the boat. It is my understanding that I could have closed the door since there was no overlap yet but I was still concerned about being pushed over the line early if either of the approaching boats turned up so I held my line and as we passed the stern of the boat he slipped in there with only a couple of feet between us and between him and the boat.
In hindsight, I would have been better served to have closed the gap earlier because there was room at the start but I am mostly happy to have stuck to my plan leaving options open and we did pass them within 5 boat lengths or so anyway.
I know this didn't add much to the discussion but I thought it was interesting to see the almost immediate application of the rules and similar scenario albeit with better results and no broken bones.
Dan
Like this.i would suggest some good communication to the outbarger to discourage.
"dont go in there, no room" should suffice
Thanks for the clarification Clay, but by the time they got overlap they were literally in an opening 4' wider than their boat with no ability to avoid the committee boat if I had turned up at all. they would have hit one or both boats had I squeezed so I needed to give them room to be there.'Outbarged'! Now that's a new one for me!
In the case you describe, overlap does NOT apply. Earlier in the story you are clear ahead and (RSS12) the clear astern boat must KEEP CLEAR. Once they overlap, (RRS11) says windward boat must KEEP CLEAR. And as there is no proper course before the start (By RRS definition), you can luff them all the way up to head to wind. So they most keep clear the entire time.
Only if you tried to turn up before they were jammed between you and the RC. You need to give them room to keep clear, which means they are entitled to room to avoid the RC once they're between you and it. If you tried to come up before that time and they prevented you, then yes you can protest.I would not have, but could I have protested them as the leeward boat for not giving me room to turn up?