3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada race.

Gunni · Apr 30, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

It is definitely the responsibility of rec. boats to stay out of the way of commercial traffic. If you are out there "bobbing around" in the shipping lanes, can't see anything, then you have two good choices - motor out of the lanes, or issue a securite' with your position every ten minutes until the CG acknowledges. They will then repeat to all. I'm surprised that the "chase boats" didn't assume this duty given that they had 200 boats out there. The USCG has new capabilities for capturing the position and recordings of any Ch.16 transmissions, I would be surprised if they don't have important details relevant to communication during this tragedy.

LuzSD · Apr 30, 2012

Scott T-Bird said:
"Quite honestly, I'm amazed it hasn't happened before," said Lamb. "You get 200 boats out there, they lose their way, and they're just bobbing around."

This came from an MSNBC article which is read by millions. This guy supposedly manned a patrol boat from a private firm which is hired to do safety patrol for the race (according to the article). This statement is incredibly condescending in my opinion and I wonder exactly what he is suggesting?

Scott, I felt the same way when I read that...... I really have not know any of us doing this or the Border Run race to 'lose our way'...... and thought we might be bobbing at times waiting for the wind, we have instruments and smarts enough to be aware.

I am sure its been mentioned here somewhere but if a freighter was coming out from the harbor and not going in, the lights are really hard to see amongst all of the city lights on land. Add in fog, haze, etc. and sound is distorted it becomes really difficult to decide what it is that you are seeing.

In one of the reports it mentioned that the recovered bodies did not have PFD's on.. I don't understand that and really can't believe that. We've been discussing this and while my husband keeps his stuff on while he is not on watch, I take mine off when I go down below for some rest. I think I might rethink that for future overnighters.

Lastly, the article in Sailing Anarchy by one of the survivors of the SF accident is an excellent read about what small things we who do these races could do to be significantly safer if we go overboard. My favorite is the addition of a crotch strap to keep the PFD from slipping off.... as well as wearing our PFD's a bit tighter than most of us probably do. He was also wearing knee pads and other padding and felt that helped save his life too. If you have not read that article, you should, it is very humbling.

In any case,if we do these races, we must look at these tragedies and realize, there but for the grace of God.....

Rick D · Apr 30, 2012

caguy said:
Rick, how was the fog that night? We had been gettng some evening and morning fog?

Just for my own information would it be prudent or misleading to run your anchor light at night, especially while crossing shipping lanes?
Second question: Is there a particular channel that you monitor on your VHS at night or any other time, or do you have it on continuous scan?
Would the freighter have picked up a radar reflector and/or would it have mattered?

It was pretty clear. 1/3 moon maybe. Some overcast, but high. No shipping lanes in that area. You definitely wouldn't want to run an anchor light high, altho some boats do it to see their windex. It's annoying because it's easy to confuse with a stern light at a distance. The boats are supposed to monitor 16. This accident occurred in Mexican waters in an area where there is no traffic separation; maybe 1.5 to 2 NM off the southern Los Coronados island. All boats are required to have a proper radar reflector. I think the race committee and USCG broadcast a notice, at least I have heard them do so. It was very light winds and would have been difficult to maneuver out of harm's way, but I suspect it had nothing to do with it. They would have started the engine if they knew they were dangerously close. I suspect the USCG knows the name of the tanker and is going to interview them whenever it gets to wherever it's going. It could have been something else but it's not likely something else would have shredded it.
RIP Agean.

Rick D · Apr 30, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

Luz, not to be graphic, but PFD's in this case, from local chatter, likely would not have made a difference, which means nothing at all as to your point. The use of PFD's has been increasing substantially over the years, especially since the USCG permitted inflatables. Why we didn't just adopt COREG standards is beyond me, rather than assuming we are smarter and more skilled than the rest of the world. But, that's another rant for another place. RIP Agean.

JohnShannon · Apr 30, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Ouzo_.pdf

report on a ferry sailboat encounter, with 3 fatalities. Discusses issues of watchkeeping and radar effectiveness with sea clutter.

Related item report on radar reflectors.

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Radar reflectors report.pdf

report on various radar reflectors including an active one that gives a radar cross section of about 100 square meters,

Brian D · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

There is one theory no one is discussing. Broaching whale. If there is no ghost ship, then what other possibility is there. Occam's razor.

LuzSD · May 1, 2012

Rick D said:
Luz, not to be graphic, but PFD's in this case, from local chatter, likely would not have made a difference, which means nothing at all as to your point. The use of PFD's has been increasing substantially over the years, especially since the USCG permitted inflatables. Why we didn't just adopt COREG standards is beyond me, rather than assuming we are smarter and more skilled than the rest of the world. But, that's another rant for another place. RIP Agean.

Rick, I understand, and that is basically what I thought about why they might be reporting them without their's on ... and the graphic gives me chills head to toe.

zeehag · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

whale would not have ground up the boat, as would propellers of a freighter ... too many freighters donot see sailboats in the dark. too many sailboats do not see at 0130 the hulking hugeness of impending doom called freighters at 0130. is difficult sometimes to discern the distance of a freighter coming down on ye. is difficult at best to see a sailboat from a huge ship--especially when the souls on watch arent as bright as during daylight. sleep happens. we NEED to be diligent with watching out for them as they cannot turn away from us as fast as we can leave their paths.
we can mmqb all we want to, but i believe the souls on board aegean didnt stand a chance to exit the path--if they could have, they would have. they knew the paths of these hulks and how to avoid--could it be they just didnt see it coming.
even sleeping in pfds would not have helped them, per descriptions written by the rest of sailing fleet.
rip aegean.

Old Skool Neil · May 1, 2012

The report from one on site (looked like they went through a blender) is very telling. While we're wondering aloud awaiting more information and with the idea they may have been caught completely off guard, remember too that San Diego has an active submarine facility. I'm not saying that's what happened, just throwing it into the bucket of possibilities.

Here's a Google Earth screenshot of 4 subs in San Diego and one in drydock.

zeehag · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

methinks sd subs should be ruled out. as should be whales. shredding isnt a submarine or whale thing. spot shows going into coronado norte, and mexico has issues with gps anyway--the watchman should have been alert to disastrous happenings as they sailed south. is not an easy coast to sail. stuff happens, as we now realize. i hope in the future the watchman on watch in these areas keeps vigilance so as to preserve lives.
how can ye be caught COMPLETELY OFF GUARD when there is a watchman at helm at all times.....is something to consider seriously. is only a 90-100 mile trip, and usually done in less than 24 hours.
rip aegean

alexco38 · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

I would expect ocean race boat would have AIS alarm on board. Only a few hundred bucks and could save life. You can even buy one built into a VHF radio.

We do lake race every year. Those tankers and lakers are huge and you can't tell if they are coming or going in the dark. With all the lights on, it is very hard to see the red or green.

Sad story but have to wait for more news. CSI folks might be able to find traces of bronze or paint on the debris. They should be able to back track AIS records if a commercial ship is involved.

Old Skool Neil · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

You're right Zee. In the few minutes since I posted that speculation I read a report from San Diego's 10 News that a witness from another boat has surfaced claiming to have actually seen a freighter collide with the sailboat.

http://www.10news.com/news/30976995/detail.html

zeehag · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

some one wasnt actively watching --mebbe on both vessels..is a shame and very sad--NEVER become complacent about the seas and contents therein. she is a mean momma and practices tough love. is sad. is harsh. is sick to watch someone else have a problem in our community. we are truly a community. we need to remain alert and vigilant to our surroundings.
rip aegean. may your sailors be ever watchful over us and our friends and sailing family.

Gunni · May 1, 2012

With 212 race boats out there it is entirely understandable that the Aegean got lost in the clutter. Like a bird strike on take off - which way do you turn? A commercial vessel like this would be making 18 knots or so and closing fast on a pack of opposing traffic. At a closing speed of +20 knots, stuff happens fast. It would be easy to think they had avoided traffic, only to find one dead ahead.

This scenario happened to us last summer during an overnight race up the Ches bay. We listened as the commercial pilot became confused by the large number of faint radar targets. He got on the radio, gave avoidance instructions to an obstructing sailboat and got no response. For 5 minutes we listened as the pilot became more urgent, and the offending helmsman steered back across the bow of the commercial vessel like some kind of crazy squirrel. It still makes my hair stand on end to remember the pilot's call to a following cargo vessel that he had run down a sailboat, and to please look for debris in his wake, and report out. In fact the fool surfed the bow wave, traded paint, and lived to see another day. You disappear to a pilot if you a less than a few hundred yards out. Monitor your radio, follow instructions.

I've grown tired of this racing stuff, it creates too many opportunities for poor decisions, bad moves, and herd behavior. And I really don't want to have to do a rescue recovery in the bargain. And here comes the summer racing season in the Capital of Sailing. Baa Humbug.

RichH · May 1, 2012

Latest un-official 'guess' is that the boat went up on the rocks at North Coronado Island with a heavy swell running.

Here's supposedly their 'last' SPOT track ... once into this URL, click on 'hybrid' in the map/satellite/hybrid/terrain box .. and then magnify (zoom in) ... the 'last' position is ON the rocks. You can 'zoom to' the final position by double clicking the topmost position report in the LEFT 'message box'. .....
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF

Gunni · May 1, 2012

RichH said:
Latest un-official 'guess' is that the boat went up on the rocks at North Coronado Island with a heavy swell running.

Here's supposedly their 'last' SPOT track ... once into this URL, click on 'hybrid' in the map/satellite/hybrid/terrain box .. and then magnify (zoom in) ... the 'last' position is ON the rocks. You can 'zoom to' the final position by double clicking the topmost position report in the LEFT 'message box'. .....
http://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0PPpktkSXb0QR2ojCNeoelyfYAx2eVZzF

The Newport Ocean Sailing Association reports are that the boat disappeared from their race boat tracking system at 0130 Saturday. Not the 0430 time the Spot track intersects N. Coronado I.

Mikem · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

As the ship's navigator on USS Nimitz I remember one night leading a column of six warships into Pattaya Beach, Thailand. The night was clear, windless, and the seas were calm. So far so good. But if there was one small fishing boat ahead of us and to port and starboard there were dozens of small vessels seemingly stationary right on our course. And even though the fishing boats were well lit by their own deck/work lights they were still hard to track. We slowed to 10 kts and posted bow lookouts since the shadow zone from the bridge was huge. We transited that fishing fleet for about two hours...a very tense two hours. The point is that even with extra lookouts, calm seas, great visibility, several radar plots, slowed speed and well lit fishing boats, we could not be sure we saw all the traffic. For a commercial vessel with few on watch and maybe no bow lookouts and one person manning the radar the odds against seeing a small poorly lit fiberglass vessel are not good. Perhaps, if it was a commercial vessel that struck Aegean it was possibly trying to avoid a contact it did spot. I'm sure we can all learn from the impending investigation.

RichH · May 1, 2012

The 'last' SPOT report is in EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME. That would make the last 'report' at ~ 0130 'local' (PDT) time.

From the SPOT site with 'expansion of details' (click on the tiny "+" box) in the of the last reporting:
"Your Local Time:
April 28, 2012 4:36:36 AM EDT (this translates to 1:36:36 AM 'local' time)
Coordinates: (WGS84)
32.44532 , -117.29999
Message Detail:"

zeehag · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

spot shows me 100 yds or more from where i actually am ..i am in a slip in la cruz de huanacaxtle. do you truly believe someone is sailing straight into a surf line by choice or do you mebbe figure an eyewitness could have actually not been hallucinating. do not place absolute trust in any gps mechanism in mexico or anywhere else. and WHO was on watch an where is his body.....

3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada race.

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