thining of taking our '89 26.5 hunter across the atlantic to the u.k. will oviously need a lot of work to bring to standard for the voyage from its basic self. in basic terms i believe she will be capable of doing the trip but can be convinced otherwise - maybe! bay and short coastal have proved her to be very capable in all such situations - and performs very well in comparison to many larger boats - we easily put some to shame!! is there anyone who could us some idea of the cost of the refit, necessary, not frivolous equipment, etc. tips re equipment, outboard engine, etc., etc. also any notes or straight forward resources about crossing the atlantic to what, i have to admit, is after all my 'omeland, the land of fish and chips and goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood draft bitter sadly missed 'ere. please do not worry re experience in long range cruising. inexperience will not be the problem within the next few months. ted.
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crossing
I for one am suprised that there were not a deluge of comments similiar to the previous, I hope he is joking or will reconsider in a more sober moment, , at any rate good luck and God speed , what is the line about God protecting drunkards and fools , ?MIke , B
I for one am suprised that there were not a deluge of comments similiar to the previous, I hope he is joking or will reconsider in a more sober moment, , at any rate good luck and God speed , what is the line about God protecting drunkards and fools , ?MIke , B
Don't worry Mike B.
they have not had an oppurtunity to see Ted's post. I really do hope that Ted is joking.
they have not had an oppurtunity to see Ted's post. I really do hope that Ted is joking.
Atlantic Crossing
Ted, Yes, it can be done buttttt!!!!Do you really want to risk your life to do this.? The ocean can be a very dangerous environment, especially in a small craft. I suggest you watch the movie "The Perfect Storm" starring George Clooney. My Dad is a retired Captain from large oil tankers and he told me more than once about getrting caught in 60 foot waves. Even on a large ship it was pretty scary. I suggest you reconsider purchasing a larger boat, say 37 feet and up and that's after you see the above mentioned movie. Good Luck, Barrie
Ted, Yes, it can be done buttttt!!!!Do you really want to risk your life to do this.? The ocean can be a very dangerous environment, especially in a small craft. I suggest you watch the movie "The Perfect Storm" starring George Clooney. My Dad is a retired Captain from large oil tankers and he told me more than once about getrting caught in 60 foot waves. Even on a large ship it was pretty scary. I suggest you reconsider purchasing a larger boat, say 37 feet and up and that's after you see the above mentioned movie. Good Luck, Barrie
Perfect Storm yeah right
I cast my vote for a kinder and gentler forum. Rhetoric and Hollywood aside, Ted, I suggest you gain significant experience in heavy weather sailing before trying it. Including learning the true sea-worthiness of your vessel. IMHO Getting a bigger boat will not replace these. (If the Atlantic can threaten a tanker -- it can -- then how good is the advice to size up to 30s vs 20s?)
I cast my vote for a kinder and gentler forum. Rhetoric and Hollywood aside, Ted, I suggest you gain significant experience in heavy weather sailing before trying it. Including learning the true sea-worthiness of your vessel. IMHO Getting a bigger boat will not replace these. (If the Atlantic can threaten a tanker -- it can -- then how good is the advice to size up to 30s vs 20s?)
Perfect Storm is right!
Bill: My uncle was involved in an incident in the Atlantic several years ago. They where passing from Cape Cod to Ireland. They where hit by a rouge wave (est. 60 ft) about 9 days off shore (half way here). The wave smashed his son against the wheel (dented the wheel), broke the companion way boards, flood the interior with over 3 feet of water and shreaded both of their sail (Double wishbone Tanton 43'). Now I ask you, what do YOU think would happen to a Hunter 26, 30,...... etc in a 60 wave? I think that it would have pitch poled and we would wonder what ever happened to Ted. He wouldn't ever get a chance to taste those "Fish
Bill: My uncle was involved in an incident in the Atlantic several years ago. They where passing from Cape Cod to Ireland. They where hit by a rouge wave (est. 60 ft) about 9 days off shore (half way here). The wave smashed his son against the wheel (dented the wheel), broke the companion way boards, flood the interior with over 3 feet of water and shreaded both of their sail (Double wishbone Tanton 43'). Now I ask you, what do YOU think would happen to a Hunter 26, 30,...... etc in a 60 wave? I think that it would have pitch poled and we would wonder what ever happened to Ted. He wouldn't ever get a chance to taste those "Fish
Ok Steve good example
Steve, there are of course such waves. The Hollywood treatment completely left out the questions regarding seaworthiness, that were raised in the book. There are people who have regularly braved open ocean heavy weather who believe that there are better ways to deal with it than adding 10 or 15 feet to boat length, that's all. For example, Coles, Pardey. BTW I enjoy your regular contributions to this forum, Steve.
Steve, there are of course such waves. The Hollywood treatment completely left out the questions regarding seaworthiness, that were raised in the book. There are people who have regularly braved open ocean heavy weather who believe that there are better ways to deal with it than adding 10 or 15 feet to boat length, that's all. For example, Coles, Pardey. BTW I enjoy your regular contributions to this forum, Steve.
sometink about bein' british!
perhaps we subjects of her majesty - called commoners by the way, those not directly related - are used to the smaller versions of hull and rag!! but thanks for comments so far even if sceptical. on side to our story is that we want to get our 26.5 to britain, i want to gain as many sea miles as possible for qualifications for blighty and the states. cost of shipping by cargo vessel will be in the region of 10-15,000 dollars. no - we will not sell our boat - too good to be replaced and not because of sentiment. incidently read an article recently where an 89 year old woman sailed her 28 foot across the atlantic with her 60 year son as crew stopping at azores, etc. admittedly both had had a lifetime of experience. also some interesting articles in the h.o.w. archives if one puts in 'crossing the atlantic'. still more than keen on info. as in original message of this forum. for sceptics, with no disrespect, i have made the will!! ted. not only mad but british as well!!
perhaps we subjects of her majesty - called commoners by the way, those not directly related - are used to the smaller versions of hull and rag!! but thanks for comments so far even if sceptical. on side to our story is that we want to get our 26.5 to britain, i want to gain as many sea miles as possible for qualifications for blighty and the states. cost of shipping by cargo vessel will be in the region of 10-15,000 dollars. no - we will not sell our boat - too good to be replaced and not because of sentiment. incidently read an article recently where an 89 year old woman sailed her 28 foot across the atlantic with her 60 year son as crew stopping at azores, etc. admittedly both had had a lifetime of experience. also some interesting articles in the h.o.w. archives if one puts in 'crossing the atlantic'. still more than keen on info. as in original message of this forum. for sceptics, with no disrespect, i have made the will!! ted. not only mad but british as well!!
It Has Been Done In Smaller Vessels
By less experienced folk. I have a book in my hand about a guy who did it in a 17' boat and had another about a guy who did it in smaller one he kept in his garage. Interesting side note both of those guys were British, is there a theme here?
By less experienced folk. I have a book in my hand about a guy who did it in a 17' boat and had another about a guy who did it in smaller one he kept in his garage. Interesting side note both of those guys were British, is there a theme here?
The theme is crazy!
Now I do not know how many of you out there happen to know many Brits but they are very hard headed. Once they get something in their head they are going to try do do it no matter what we tell them. I can tell you this with conviction. One of my best friends is a brit. So if you want to say there is something about the British, there is. PS: don't screw with them until they get mad! It is not wise. Ted: If you decide to do it, pick your weather window well.
Now I do not know how many of you out there happen to know many Brits but they are very hard headed. Once they get something in their head they are going to try do do it no matter what we tell them. I can tell you this with conviction. One of my best friends is a brit. So if you want to say there is something about the British, there is. PS: don't screw with them until they get mad! It is not wise. Ted: If you decide to do it, pick your weather window well.
Everyone is forgetting the most important thing...
I don't think it is a question of whether the 26.5 can make the journey. It certainly is not a question of whether you have the experience. Forget 90' seas. Forget Lorans, VHFs, Iridium phones, and weather faxes. All of these things do not matter. This trip is impossible simply because a 26.5 cannot hold enough beer to cross the Atlantic.
I don't think it is a question of whether the 26.5 can make the journey. It certainly is not a question of whether you have the experience. Forget 90' seas. Forget Lorans, VHFs, Iridium phones, and weather faxes. All of these things do not matter. This trip is impossible simply because a 26.5 cannot hold enough beer to cross the Atlantic.
God speed
go for it. Be prepared, read, sail as much as you can before hand in all sorts of weather and as the commercial says... just do it.
go for it. Be prepared, read, sail as much as you can before hand in all sorts of weather and as the commercial says... just do it.
WHy not go for it?
Ted, Wow! I've never sailed on a body larger than the lake I learned to sail on. I used to be a "hair boater" kayak type. That was when I had hair. My nickname was probe unit. When we hit something crazy they'd let me run first and watch what happened then decide if they'd run it. I've read too many books about killer storms and their result. But if you think you can do it and you think your boat can do it then why the hell not. The world is not flat! You won't sail off the edge! YOu won't be alone in taking risks and enjoying the result. Good sailing, Mike
Ted, Wow! I've never sailed on a body larger than the lake I learned to sail on. I used to be a "hair boater" kayak type. That was when I had hair. My nickname was probe unit. When we hit something crazy they'd let me run first and watch what happened then decide if they'd run it. I've read too many books about killer storms and their result. But if you think you can do it and you think your boat can do it then why the hell not. The world is not flat! You won't sail off the edge! YOu won't be alone in taking risks and enjoying the result. Good sailing, Mike
Christopher Columbus
Does anyone know how big Christopher Columbus' boats were? Or whether they were any more seaworthy than a hunter 26? Yet they cast off and crossed the Atlantic not having any idea if they would ever return. The human spirit has historically been one of adventure and exploration. We seem to be diminishing in spirit as we worry about liability, and we let fear rule our actions. We would already have a colony on Mars if we were as adventurous as our forefathers before us who came from Europe in droves once the first few people found the Americas. I say go for it and if you don't make it then you can be a statistic but at least you let your spirit be free.
Does anyone know how big Christopher Columbus' boats were? Or whether they were any more seaworthy than a hunter 26? Yet they cast off and crossed the Atlantic not having any idea if they would ever return. The human spirit has historically been one of adventure and exploration. We seem to be diminishing in spirit as we worry about liability, and we let fear rule our actions. We would already have a colony on Mars if we were as adventurous as our forefathers before us who came from Europe in droves once the first few people found the Americas. I say go for it and if you don't make it then you can be a statistic but at least you let your spirit be free.
Christopher Columbus my ass!
They didn't know about the last boat that didn't come back. Probably thought that they had found a place where there were wild women and lots of grog and did not want to share it with anyone else. We know about these things today. I got to tell you (after cross 2800 miles of the Pacific), IT A BIG, BIG OCEAN out there. We had very mild weather for most of our crossing. When the winds were up around 28-30 kts and the seas are 18-20 ft. it was a much different feeling. Those waves (can and do) break on the boat out there. When you are out in the middle of the night and you can only steer by the compass because there is nothing else to point at it is a very strange feeling. All of this was on a boat that is more that twice the size and probably 5 times a capable as this poor little H'26.
They didn't know about the last boat that didn't come back. Probably thought that they had found a place where there were wild women and lots of grog and did not want to share it with anyone else. We know about these things today. I got to tell you (after cross 2800 miles of the Pacific), IT A BIG, BIG OCEAN out there. We had very mild weather for most of our crossing. When the winds were up around 28-30 kts and the seas are 18-20 ft. it was a much different feeling. Those waves (can and do) break on the boat out there. When you are out in the middle of the night and you can only steer by the compass because there is nothing else to point at it is a very strange feeling. All of this was on a boat that is more that twice the size and probably 5 times a capable as this poor little H'26.
Don't go, but if you do........
Ted, My reaction is like most of the others: I wouldn't recommend the trip in a 26.5. If you are determined to go, I wish you well and hope that you make it safely. My 25.5 is very similar to the 26.5; both are great little boats for their intended use: lakes, bays and protected waters. Ok for light coastal cruising in good weather. Yes, they can take a pretty good blow for a while but they are just not built for the continuous pounding of weeks at sea and the storms you are likely to encounter. As to your questions; off the top of my head, here is a list of equipment that I would consider to be essential for crossing the Atlantic or offshore passagemaking in any boat: Liferaft; GPS and backup spare; triple-reef mainsail; storm jib; EPIRB; autopilot(or windvane self-steerer); wind generator or solar charger; Dodger; Bimini top; Drogue; SSB radio; and lots more than I can think of right now. There are three critical areas that deserve special consideration: 1) Electrical power. The lack of an auxiliary diesel with alternator/charger severely limits your ability to use electrical power. Some outboards do have small alternator/chargers but I wouldn't depend on this for your power needs. That's why a wind generator or solar cells would be needed to recharge your batteries. Otherwise, you would need a large supply of extra batteries for such things as your GPS. Your radios need well-charged batteries as well. 2) Crew endurance. The small size of the boat limits the number of crew you can take, especially with the increased amount of food, water, and supplies that each additional crew member would require. An autopilot uses a lot of electrical power (ref. 1) above) and you wouldn't have enough crew to have a fresh helmsman on the tiller for such a long trip. A windvane self steerer is almost obligatory, but $$$$$$. Simply lashing the tiller isn't adequate for these boats as they won't hold their course as every movement of crew can cause the boat to heel or tip; changing the course. Try this out on your boat and see what happens. 3) Water. You would need quite a large quantity, stored in separate containers to prevent all from being accidentally contaminated. A manual watermaker might be a good idea for emergency drinking water. The cost of this equipment is certain to exceed the value of your boat, but I think most of these items are essential. An outboard is a real drawback for an offshore boat. I've already mentioned the inability to generate sufficient electrical power. In heavy waves, the propeller would be out of the water half the time. In calm conditions, you can't carry enough fuel to depend on motoring for any distance. Here are a couple of sites with links to almost any sailing topic where you can find some helpful information: http://www.saltyseas.com/boatindex/ http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html Many have crossed oceans in smaller boats; many have failed in larger ones. Tristan Jones sailed thousands of miles in "Dart", a 26 footer, but he was, Tristan Jones. I hope we've talked you out of it but if you go, good luck and Godspeed. Dick
Ted, My reaction is like most of the others: I wouldn't recommend the trip in a 26.5. If you are determined to go, I wish you well and hope that you make it safely. My 25.5 is very similar to the 26.5; both are great little boats for their intended use: lakes, bays and protected waters. Ok for light coastal cruising in good weather. Yes, they can take a pretty good blow for a while but they are just not built for the continuous pounding of weeks at sea and the storms you are likely to encounter. As to your questions; off the top of my head, here is a list of equipment that I would consider to be essential for crossing the Atlantic or offshore passagemaking in any boat: Liferaft; GPS and backup spare; triple-reef mainsail; storm jib; EPIRB; autopilot(or windvane self-steerer); wind generator or solar charger; Dodger; Bimini top; Drogue; SSB radio; and lots more than I can think of right now. There are three critical areas that deserve special consideration: 1) Electrical power. The lack of an auxiliary diesel with alternator/charger severely limits your ability to use electrical power. Some outboards do have small alternator/chargers but I wouldn't depend on this for your power needs. That's why a wind generator or solar cells would be needed to recharge your batteries. Otherwise, you would need a large supply of extra batteries for such things as your GPS. Your radios need well-charged batteries as well. 2) Crew endurance. The small size of the boat limits the number of crew you can take, especially with the increased amount of food, water, and supplies that each additional crew member would require. An autopilot uses a lot of electrical power (ref. 1) above) and you wouldn't have enough crew to have a fresh helmsman on the tiller for such a long trip. A windvane self steerer is almost obligatory, but $$$$$$. Simply lashing the tiller isn't adequate for these boats as they won't hold their course as every movement of crew can cause the boat to heel or tip; changing the course. Try this out on your boat and see what happens. 3) Water. You would need quite a large quantity, stored in separate containers to prevent all from being accidentally contaminated. A manual watermaker might be a good idea for emergency drinking water. The cost of this equipment is certain to exceed the value of your boat, but I think most of these items are essential. An outboard is a real drawback for an offshore boat. I've already mentioned the inability to generate sufficient electrical power. In heavy waves, the propeller would be out of the water half the time. In calm conditions, you can't carry enough fuel to depend on motoring for any distance. Here are a couple of sites with links to almost any sailing topic where you can find some helpful information: http://www.saltyseas.com/boatindex/ http://www.boat-links.com/boatlink.html Many have crossed oceans in smaller boats; many have failed in larger ones. Tristan Jones sailed thousands of miles in "Dart", a 26 footer, but he was, Tristan Jones. I hope we've talked you out of it but if you go, good luck and Godspeed. Dick
Three strikes against you .....
I hate to discourage people who are trying to make a fool of themselves. Time and again I have done so myself and I would not want to trade (some of) the memories for the world! However, I am also a strong proponent of trying to estimate the risk before plunging in with your eyes wide shut. In this case I am afraid that you have three strikes against you right from the beginning: (1) length DOES MATTER (just look at the statistics of the disastrous Fastnet race in the North Atlantic; all 15 boats abandoned were under 40 feet, if I do remember correctly); (2) lack of comfort (I met a sailor in Hilo who had just single-handed in a light 23 footer and had nearly been driven insane by the constant yawing motion; this was supposed to be the first leg of his circumnavigation, instead he now found himself looking for a buyer); and (3) a small Hunter is too thin-skinned to survive a collision with a floating or swimming object (some scaling laws work to your advantage when going smaller, e.g. enabling stronger rigs, however the opposite is alas true for skin thickness, thus favoring relatively heavy designs). I see no problem with a carefully prepared Hunter over 35 ft. Anything much smaller is like bungee jumping with a rope that is a bit too skimpy..... See yah out there someday! Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II' (Hunter Legend 43, hull #1)
I hate to discourage people who are trying to make a fool of themselves. Time and again I have done so myself and I would not want to trade (some of) the memories for the world! However, I am also a strong proponent of trying to estimate the risk before plunging in with your eyes wide shut. In this case I am afraid that you have three strikes against you right from the beginning: (1) length DOES MATTER (just look at the statistics of the disastrous Fastnet race in the North Atlantic; all 15 boats abandoned were under 40 feet, if I do remember correctly); (2) lack of comfort (I met a sailor in Hilo who had just single-handed in a light 23 footer and had nearly been driven insane by the constant yawing motion; this was supposed to be the first leg of his circumnavigation, instead he now found himself looking for a buyer); and (3) a small Hunter is too thin-skinned to survive a collision with a floating or swimming object (some scaling laws work to your advantage when going smaller, e.g. enabling stronger rigs, however the opposite is alas true for skin thickness, thus favoring relatively heavy designs). I see no problem with a carefully prepared Hunter over 35 ft. Anything much smaller is like bungee jumping with a rope that is a bit too skimpy..... See yah out there someday! Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II' (Hunter Legend 43, hull #1)
Design is key. 2.2 capsize screen!
Does the 26.5 really have the inherent stability needed to survive a roll-over, or heaving to in very heavy weather? Or were real compromises made to tune her for coastal cruising? The capsize screen of 2.2 in the specs on this site indicates that this is the case. If so, pay the shipping costs. (The meaning of a capsize screen of over 2 is that she is less likely to recover from being rolled over.) I think design is much more important than length, since a number of 27 to 30 footers have been recommended for ocean crossings. If the basic design is ocean-worthy, then you need to do very significant work to strengthen the hull, its closings, rigging, and support systems for an ocean crossing. There are some good posts on this forum, both past discussions, and owner reviews. Think through your decision, and I'd recommend talking to someone who delivers boats to get a realistic idea of the issues. David Lady Lillie
Does the 26.5 really have the inherent stability needed to survive a roll-over, or heaving to in very heavy weather? Or were real compromises made to tune her for coastal cruising? The capsize screen of 2.2 in the specs on this site indicates that this is the case. If so, pay the shipping costs. (The meaning of a capsize screen of over 2 is that she is less likely to recover from being rolled over.) I think design is much more important than length, since a number of 27 to 30 footers have been recommended for ocean crossings. If the basic design is ocean-worthy, then you need to do very significant work to strengthen the hull, its closings, rigging, and support systems for an ocean crossing. There are some good posts on this forum, both past discussions, and owner reviews. Think through your decision, and I'd recommend talking to someone who delivers boats to get a realistic idea of the issues. David Lady Lillie
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