10 guage to 16 guage?

Jan 7, 2011
5,597
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Wire nuts aren’t designed for stranded wire. They can cut the strands and impair the connection.
Not to get us too deep into this, but I just wired up a new ceiling fan at home, and the wires to the light kit, and from the remote control device to the fan motor are all strand wire…with wire nuts (I think wing nuts are different).

I dont use wire nuts on my boat wiring, but I don’t know that wire nuts on all stranded wire is always taboo.

Greg
 
May 17, 2004
5,684
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Not to get us too deep into this, but I just wired up a new ceiling fan at home, and the wires to the light kit, and from the remote control device to the fan motor are all strand wire…with wire nuts (I think wing nuts are different).

I dont use wire nuts on my boat wiring, but I don’t know that wire nuts on all stranded wire is always taboo.

Greg
Good point. I was paraphrasing Nigel Calder with the caution against wire nuts and stranded wire, but I can’t find any other references.

There are still much more reliable methods to splice wires in a marine environment. Bilge wiring would be an especially bad place for wire nuts. DC leakage carried via bilge water into through hull fittings can lead to really fast corrosion.
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,266
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
I dont use wire nuts on my boat wiring, but I don’t know that wire nuts on all stranded wire is always taboo.
I think the problem with wire nuts on a boat is that all of the rocking action could eventually lead to knocking of a nut(s) against a solid surface and the eventual unwinding and release of the nut(s).

A long shot, yes, but given enough opportunities, a possible fire.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,155
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Your fine Greg.
You were likely connecting solid copper wires with the wire nuts. That is what they are designed to do. I trust your house is not moving like your boat. Only time I saw isuues is when we lived in Califonia and the earthquakes shook the house, damaged the wiring. :laugh:
 
Jun 17, 2019
42
Catalina 30 Texas south port
Well, the operation is about to begin.

Question came to mind, does it matter if the bilge pump disconnect wires are female or male?
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,155
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
No. It is fielders choice.
 
Jan 7, 2011
5,597
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
Your fine Greg.
You were likely connecting solid copper wires with the wire nuts. That is what they are designed to do. I trust your house is not moving like your boat. Only time I saw isuues is when we lived in Califonia and the earthquakes shook the house, damaged the wiring. :laugh:
I do know the difference between solid and stranded copper wire.

The house supply is solid. Everything in the ceiling fan (light kit, fan motor, remote control receiver) are all stranded copper…

As I said, I don’t use wire nuts on my boat wiring, but it can be appropriate to use wire nuts on stranded copper (in housing applications).

Greg
 
May 17, 2004
5,684
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Well, the operation is about to begin.

Question came to mind, does it matter if the bilge pump disconnect wires are female or male?
My preference is for the battery side, especially on the red side, to be female. It probably doesn’t matter here since you’re not going to be disconnecting it often, but a female 12V connector is less likely to short against anything else when it’s disconnected.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,344
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
Gentlemen, thank you for your feedback. I have learner much on these forums. This is what they are for. I must say that I have never used wing nuts on my boat and did not know that they were designed for solid wire only. There are no solid wire on a boat due to its motion it must be stranded. Thanks for the help.
 
Jun 17, 2019
42
Catalina 30 Texas south port
Thank you very much for all the help and information y’all have provided, It has been a tremendous help!!!

1 heat shrink away from success. Have to run to Wally World tomorrow morning and finally wrap this up.
 
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Jun 17, 2019
42
Catalina 30 Texas south port
The job is done. Now, having worked cars for 14 years, I’ve got to say, that was a hell of a job. It has never taken me 3-4 days to do one repair. So many complications, tight spaces, sweat, slippery tools, unknown parts and pieces. Oh boy that was fun.

My bilge seacock must be plugged up from sitting so long, I can’t even see it. Clams and other critters. Planning on blasting ‘em out of the way by running a hose through it.
 
May 17, 2004
5,684
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Is it normal if the battery’s are set to off, that the bilge pump only slightly runs?
What do you mean by “slightly runs”? It doesn’t really sound normal to me. Some bilge pumps do cycle periodically as a way to test whether there’s any water to pump. Maybe that’s what you’re noticing? But when the battery switches are off either the pump should be completely off (if its wiring does not bypass the switch) or work like normal (if its wiring does bypass the switch).
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,266
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Is it normal if the battery’s are set to off, that the bilge pump only slightly runs?
USUALLY (no guarantees here) the battery selector (1/2/BOTH/OFF) shuts off power to the entire boat so no, the pump should not run when the level sensor is activated.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Traditionally the bilge pump is wired directly from the battery, through a fuse, bypassing the electrical panel and any way to shut off its electrical supply. At least that's what I've seen on boats since I worked in a Marine Electronics shop from 1980. :)

I'm not so crazy about this, because if there's a serious leak the bilge pump won't save the boat, but it will certainly flatten the batteries, perhaps making starting the engine impossible.

An audible high-water alarm might be a better idea, preferably one that speaks English and/or Portuguese. :) (At least in my waters.). 'attention! Attention! I am sinking! I am sinking! Estou afundando! Estou afundando!'

(O.K., no wise guy retort in a German accent of "what are you sinking about?")
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,279
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I'm guessing there was a lot of advise given without fully understanding the application. The various wire sizes were obviously the previous owners whacked out idea - I doubt there was any rhyme or reason for the 10 gauge wire, or even the 12 gauge. I really doubt it had anything to do with the original installation or the current requirement for the pump. If the pump was fitted for 16 AWG wiring then I suspect that this minimal size was all that is necessary for all 3 wire connections (for normal round-trip length of wiring). The diagram didn't make any sense ... did that come with the pump packaging or was it from some other source. It seems to me that the pump is one of those models that has an internal float built into the housing, not a separate float switch. I never liked those for a sailboat hanging out in the water. I had one of those pieces of crap in my ski boat that lived on a trailer or a dock lift, but not on a sailboat.

Some key things that @SailingFree44 should understand:

1. Based on Post #53 ... somethings not wired correctly.
2. Why is there a seacock on your bilge discharge? That doesn't make sense.
3. The wire selection is based on the amperage and the length of round trip run from the panel to the pump and back. Round trip is your red positive from the panel to the pump plus the negative from the pump to the negative buss (which is also probably at the panel).
4. "Critical" vs "Non-Critical" is the difference between the tolerance for 3% voltage drop (critical) and 10% voltage drop (non-critical). I suppose in this case it is subjective. It depends if you want your pump to run at full capacity or something less than full capacity. If you accept low capacity, you can use 16 AWG wiring for up to 50' of wire length round trip. If you want full capacity, then limit your wire length to 15' or switch to 14 AWG up to 20' or 12 AWG for up to 30'. Learn how to read the chart ... it tells you.
4a. Don't believe the stated capacity of the pump. It probably won't be close - so it's best to wire it for "critical" - 3% voltage drop limit.
5. The circuit breaker at the panel protects the wire. If you want to protect the pump at no more than 5 amps then you can add a 5 or 10 amp in-line fuse ... but nobody does this for a bilge pump. We protect expensive electronics with fuses, but typically we select circuit breakers (or fuses) at the panel only to protect the wire that is feeding the loads. Typically, 16 AWG wiring can be protected with 15 amp circuit breaker (or fuse), unless it is an unusually long run.
6. I thought I read that you wired the automatic but by-passed the manual? Or was it the other way around? This doesn't make sense. Learn how a bilge pump is intended to operate. There are various ways that we wire them as well. I suppose the 3-position switch is most common. The automatic position is intended to run through the float switch when you are away from the boat. The manual position on the switch is intended to run the pump at will. I don't know why you would by-pass your manual switch position ... that just makes your pump in-operable on demand.
7. Follow the instructions from the installation manual that came with the pump. If it is not understandable, then I would question the pump ...
8. Just do a solid crimp connection and heat-shrink protection. Don't over-think it. You can use some di-electric grease for good measure, but don't solder. Keep the wires high and dry as you can at the connections.
 
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jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
7,089
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Excellent post, Scott! I would only take exception to this:

5. The circuit breaker at the panel protects the wire. If you want to protect the pump at no more than 5 amps then you can add a 5 or 10 amp in-line fuse ... but nobody does this for a bilge pump. We protect expensive electronics with fuses, but typically we select circuit breakers (or fuses) at the panel only to protect the wire that is feeding the loads. Typically, 16 AWG wiring can be protected with 15 amp circuit breaker (or fuse), unless it is an unusually long run.
Most bilge pump wiring I've seen skips the distribution panel and is wired directly from the battery, with an inline fuse sized for the pump where the power is taken off.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,279
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Excellent post, Scott! I would only take exception to this:



Most bilge pump wiring I've seen skips the distribution panel and is wired directly from the battery, with an inline fuse sized for the pump where the power is taken off.
Yes, I understand. I've had it where the manual switch is on breaker switch on the panel, but the float switch is wired directly to the battery (with a fuse). Now, I have a 3-position switch on the panel, so if I turn the panel switch off then I have not bilge pump operation. It doesn't matter now because I leave the switch on for the fridge. When I replace my panel, I'll put it on the panel but use one of those "always on" switches that can be installed.