No Hot Water

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Recommissioned the Tartan 3800 plumbing after sorting out some very poor plumbing practice which included gobs of silicone sealant in attempts to seal leaks, and a weird mixture of brass, bronze, plastic, and nylon fittings - as if they did this with assorted spare parts. Not Tartan, but previous owners.

So, I have polybutylene-type tubing and Parker® O Ring/Grab Ring Tube Fittings all the way through, save a brass adapter and ball valve on the expansion tank (accumulator). This is the way Tartan plumbed it originally. They used polybutylene tubing, I think, and for new tubing I used LLDPE.

My water heater is in the port cockpit locker, and mounted high up in that locker is a secondary coolant pressure tank with pressure cap, and a coolant overflow tank. This is in addition to the primary cap on the exhaust manifold tank and its nearby overflow tank. I spoke with Bob Hansen at Hansen Marine (a Westerbeke distributor) and he confirmed this practice, as it's difficult to bleed this kind of system; the primary pressure cap is at 14 psi, the secondary 7 psi ("but check the caps!").

I had hot water in the fall. I didn't make any changes to the coolant, or open anything.

The secondary overflow tank is low on coolant. It was this way in the fall, too.

Now I have no hot water. I have water pressure from the hot taps, but it's not hot, at all.

Any ideas? Could it be that I have some kind of bubble in at the top of the coolant circuit that doesn't cause the engine to overheat, but prevents making hot water?

Thanks!

jv
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Is there an anti-scald valve on the water heater?
There is, I think. I'm not very familiar with what these things look like on boats, but it seems there is one on the top connection, which was plumbed previously as the outlet for the hot water from the heater. Do you think it faulty, or perhaps it is adjusted incorrectly?


Strike that. I spoke too soon. I don't think there is. There is what appears to be an over-pressure relief valve.
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
Are you trying to make hot water electrically or via engine heat exchange?
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
BTW if you did have an anti-scald it would come out of the tank and look like a valve and have a cold water line going to it also so you could mix hot and cold. If your going for heat exchange there is a lot to look at but one easy thing is that sometimes long runs of hose become air bound. I have a bleeder in mine as the run to the water heater is around 10 feet there and 10 feet back.
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,894
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Burped the fresh water side thoroughly? Might be that side since ya haven't messed with the coolant side for winterization? Open the safety valve for a bit with water pressure on .. ?
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Burped the fresh water side thoroughly? Might be that side since ya haven't messed with the coolant side for winterization? Open the safety valve for a bit with water pressure on .. ?
  • Burped the fresh water side thoroughly? - No.
  • Might be that side since ya haven't messed with the coolant side for winterization? - Maybe.
  • Open the safety valve for a bit with water pressure on .. ? - Haven't tried that.
How would I "open the safety valve for a bit with water pressure on ?" I assume you mean the overpressure relief valve?

This was discovered, that we didn't have hot water, just as we were leaving the boat Sunday evening. I haven't had a chance to debug at all. I haven't even felt the various hoses to see if they are hot or cold. Just trying to understand what might have gone wrong, to aid the debug process.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Did you just run the engine at the dock at idle or did you take the boat out and run at cruising speed?
Hi Stu, I ran it at 1500 RPM charging batteries at the mooring, for well over an hour, maybe two. I usually time this, don't know why I didn't yesterday. In the Fall it made hot water in about 20 to 30 minutes at that engine speed.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Any other taps on your hot coolant lines from the engine? I discovered a former owner had installed a set of valves. They redirect the coolant to a radiator for heat in the salon when under power. Cutting off the WH lines.
Is there a blockage or bubble in the coolant line stopping the flow of coolant to the WH?
Guessing ideas having not viewed your plumbing system. To tap coolant line I'd open the fitting at the highest point and see if air or bubbles/coolant escaped.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
The safety valve, (AKA T&P valve) usually has a little lever on it .. you can flip the lever and the valve will open.. if there is air in there, it will burp out.. Do this with everything cold (engine cold and electricity off) so ya won't get burned..
EDIT: It will look something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Rheem-SP8346-Temperature-Pressure-Relief/dp/B009AX2ULU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1528730341&sr=1-7&keywords=t&p+valve
Ah, yes. Mine doesn't have one that looks like that, but maybe the lever broke off? Not sure. Whatever it is, it is in-line with the output of the heater.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Any other taps on your hot coolant lines from the engine? I discovered a former owner had installed a set of valves. They redirect the coolant to a radiator for heat in the salon when under power. Cutting off the WH lines.
Is there a blockage or bubble in the coolant line stopping the flow of coolant to the WH?
Guessing ideas having not viewed your plumbing system. To tap coolant line I'd open the fitting at the highest point and see if air or bubbles/coolant escaped.
None that I know of, John. As I indicated, it worked last Fall, doesn't now. I changed the potable water plumbing, not the coolant side.
 

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
The safety valve, (AKA T&P valve) usually has a little lever on it .. you can flip the lever and the valve will open.. if there is air in there, it will burp out.. Do this with everything cold (engine cold and electricity off) so ya won't get burned..
EDIT: It will look something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Rheem-SP8346-Temperature-Pressure-Relief/dp/B009AX2ULU/ref=sr_1_7?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1528730341&sr=1-7&keywords=t&p+valve
Found a pic of mine from the Fall. The h/w outlet is disconnected, and I assume that big, brass thing is an overpressure relief. Make sense?
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
jviss you have a bleeder valve on what seems to be the hot water outlet.
Or is that the engine in and out?
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
The larger black hoses with the spiral clamps are engine coolant hoses. Not that there are three: the one from the bleeder valve goes up to the secondary coolant tank, the other from the heater goes down to the engine, and the third goes from the secondary coolant tank to the engine. In this pic all of the potable water hoses are disconnected from the heat; in fact, the potable water bypass setup was broken and leaking, and was removed before this shot.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
So as UncleDom has implied, There seems to be a connection missing.
WH has a Hot and Cold water and a Hot and Cold (not so hot) Coolant. Four connections.
3 are evident in the image. Not sure which are which. Usually they look something like this.
16014_frc_heaters_ppm-tif.jpg

Hot and cold water - labeled
Two stubs to pass coolant through the internal coil.
a pressure relief valve with a connection to run a hose from the valve to the bilge.
A drain connection.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,748
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
There are four connections, the cold water in is hidden in the pic by the coolant connections. Please note, this worked in the fall!
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Understand.
It would appear that you do not have a pressure relief valve or a drain valve.
The drain valve is a convenience the pressure relief is a safety issue.

How to tackle the problem? It worked once now it doesn't.

Start at the beginning. A very good place to start.
  1. I would be sure that my coolant hoses were clear from engine to WH and back. I would remove them and blow them out. (be sure to drain the coolant system first).
  2. Next be sure the coil is clean by blowing air in and through the WH fittings. (In the hot side out the cool side).
  3. If all clear then the lines from the engine coolant tank out all the way through the engine - heat exchanger to the coolant tank in. Cleaning the coolant path.
  4. Once assured that the lines are clear I would reconnect and fill the coolant system keeping the highest point open to bleed the lines as the coolant is filled.
  5. Close the bleed point and start the engine to pump the coolant through the system.
  6. Again bleed the high point.
  7. Then test the system.
Some where along the way you may find a blockage. Correct the blockage and then put the system back together. On the other hand you may want to go all the way and clear the whole system if you suspect that the blockage may be in more than one place.