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C-27 Refit/Refurb

Discussion in 'Mid-Size Boats' started by philwsailz, Oct 7, 2010. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    2 motor mounts swapped. 2 to go. The front ones were fairly easy. The back ones made me quit at 10:00.

    At this point the best solution seems to be to get the new motor mounts under the motor. Square them up and get the port / starboard bias out of the alignment so that the A4 is true with shaft log and strut. My gut says this will happen with some careful work aligning new mounts with old holes.

    This thing was right once from the plant surely so IF I can get things to line up I'll wax the lag bolts and then shoot the stripped holes with some thickened West Systems prior to spinning in the lag bolts. The goal is tighten it all up but leave it where the bolts can come back out if necessary.

    Did someone ever say a C27 was a hard boat to work on? If not let me be the first. Thank goodness for comfy quarter-berth upholstery.
     


  2. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Sorry, still no pics of progress, but I have a status update. As of yesterday all new motor mounts are in and roughly over the lag bolt holes. While I have not put feeler gauge on it yet the motor and shaft are closely aligned in both the vertical and horizontal. This is a huge sense of accomplishment.

    The nagging issue for me is the fact that all 8 lag bolts were badly "wallowed" out and came out easily. The wear on the bolt shoulders on several tell me the motor was moving around a lot when last in use.

    All C27 owners know how tight it is to work in there... Without removing the motor, there is no easy way I know to restore the lag bolt holes to accept new lag bolts. Tonight I think I have a solution.

    Motor mounts are normally lag bolted. When the lag bolts are removed the motor is free to slide in and out of the engine "room". My solution would be to install "lag-studs"into the existing holes, (I know they have a proper name but I'm being lazy) filled with a thickened epoxy / chopped strand mixture. The idea is to glue in permanent studs, then use nuts to lock the motor mounts down. This should bring some structural integrity back to the joint between the engine beds and motor mounts.

    Certainly this complicates future removal of the motor as it will need to be lifted clear of the studs and then slid out, but it ALSO provides positive alignment for re-installation.

    The other option is to try to coat the existing bolt holes with a layer of similarly fortified epoxy to continue use of lag bolts, but my fear is the slathered -in layer would quickly crumble during installation of new lag bolts.

    At this point I feel the benefits of going with the epoxied-in studs out weigh the hassles.

    I appreciate any feedback.

    My goal would be to finish rough alignment and get the 8 studs glued in this week. Please offer up suggestions asap!

    Happy reading!
     


  3. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,061 posts, 652 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Hey, Phil, congratulations on what you've accomplished. Great work.

    Here's some info up your alley, ask me later about the toothpicks. :)

    http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8802.0.html

    Let me know.

    Stu
     


  4. woodster

    woodster

    Joined Sep 15, 2009
    6,240 posts, 262 likes
    S2 9.2a
    US Fairhope Al
    they are called anchor bolts...as for the holes drill them out to say 3/8 of an inch and get maple dowels and epoxy them in and re drill the pilot holes and use new lag bolts/screws
     


    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  5. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Silicone and toothpicks?
    Stu, REALLY?????

    That is too simple a solution. Complicate it for me please... :D.

    I may riff on a theme and do similar, but somehow I am pretty confident it won't be silicone... :)
     


  6. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Woodster-

    That is my preferred method but it requires removing the motor. I may end up there anyway; do it right once, but I am hoping for an in-place solid engineering solution...
     


  7. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Stu wins... Sort of.

    Relying on toothpicks of unknown provenance is just not up my alley. I have some hard clear kiln-dried maple in the wood shop; hard dense stuff. I ripped up some strips, slightly thinner than the example shown, and using two per hole I am getting a real good bite with fresh new lag bolts. image.jpg

    Yup... Silicone too. Thanks Stu.

    I considered longer lag bolts in fresh meat, but that felt real iffy at the back. Not a whole lot of depth to the hull. I stuck with the stock bolt length.

    The aft-most starboard mount is now snugged down with bolts installed. At the moment the big port/starboard alignment issue found with old shaft is not evident. Male and female pilot diameters between coupling and output flange are basically concentric; no shaft deflection as the cylindrical mating surfaces engage.

    I'm feeling better about this whole phase. Calling it quits for the eve.

    Shower and then Tito's time :).
     


  8. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I'll get this thing close knowing the boat will move some after hitting the water. I know I get to re-check shaft/motor alignment at about a week floating.

    Up and down adjustment doesn't scare me. I can do that floating.

    Port to starboard is the big boogie monster based on found wear on old parts. That alignment should move from dry to wet without any big changes hopefully. I really don't want to loosen lags after they are snugged.

    Granted the wear and damage I saw on the original shaft and stuffing box took place sometime during the first 40 years and that is a long time. Based on that logic I should not worry so much. I know it's not the case though.

    I guess in all of this what I'm trying to tell myself is not to rely on the rubber in the mounts to facilitate alignment. Get it right. :)
     


  9. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Pics.

    Front motor mounts installed and bolted almost down. Lag bolts are snugging nicely with maple fillers.

    Big deal you say... :D

    I told my wife coming in from the shop: "the next boat we buy, help me remember to consider engine maintenance access..." Followed by several expletives!!!!

    Son-of-a-#%%#%!!!!!

    Even the front mounts were very difficult. Access to both mounts, the lag bolts and studs are only through the small cabin access hatch. To get to both of the back lugs on the front mounts you are basically working in Braille, blindly by hand aligning mount and finding the bolt hole in the beds, all while your forearms are being stabbed by temp and oil sensor senders. image.jpg image.jpg

    Good news is that with the new mounts I am getting real good alignment between engine and shaft. Despite jacking motor up and yanking it around to get front mounts in and bottomed it settles nicely back to a visually tight coupling to motor alignment when I take the Jack down and out.

    One more to go. I know. Two weeks to swap 4 motor mounts. Go buy a C27 and feel my pain... :)

    I should be rewarded though. The volume and living space below is substantial. I am looking forward to splash-down!
     


  10. centerline

    centerline

    Joined Mar 20, 2012
    3,983 posts, 186 likes
    Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25
    US Salem, Oregon
    Rather than using a totally new thru hull, plumb the sump so it pumps up and over a siphon break elbow, and back down and out thru the existing drain cock... this will save a hole and a lot of time vs. Installing and plumbing a new thru hull...

    And I have a question about your interior lighting plan.... I know halogen lighting is great, but with the equally great lighting that can be offered with the newer LED bulbs, what is the draw to the halogen?..... considering you could save around 300% of the power consumption using LED vs halogen bulbs....
     


  11. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Hah! The entry you quoted is from 5 years ago when this odyssey started. :D

    I retained the old sink thru-hull. It now drains a shower sump that the sink, ice box, and the AC condensation line drain into. And... Yes it pumps over a vented loop.

    As for the lighting, at the time I was looking for halogen to provide a more appealing light when compared with the LED I had seen to date. My list of must-dos has grown, and that issue of lighting fell way down the list. If I get to it, I probably will employ a bright LED instead of halogen. I already added RGB lighting throughout, so at least my desire to do a lighting update has been addressed; at least in part.
     


  12. centerline

    centerline

    Joined Mar 20, 2012
    3,983 posts, 186 likes
    Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25
    US Salem, Oregon
    LOL.... thanks for update.
    Im not sure how this thread got to where i could even reply to it... After a couple months these threads should be locked, as the OP has hopefully figured out his issues by then and doesnt need anymore commentary on it.:biggrin:... because there are always gonna be people like me who thinks thay have something worthy to add;)
     


  13. weinie

    weinie

    Joined Sep 6, 2010
    1,264 posts, 231 likes
    Jeanneau 349
    US port washington, ny
    This thread will never get locked because Phil will never get his poor boat in the water with the crappy luck he's having!!!

    Just kidding man! I feel for you, I really do!
     


  14. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I'm getting close!
     


  15. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Last motor mount went in tonight. All are snug. At the moment the shaft coupling and the motor's output flange are lining up nicely; gone is the 1/4" offset port to starboard I found when taking things apart.

    I am going to go buy fresh bolts to mate the coupler to the motor, (dammit, I left the old ones all in the boat) and then start all three. I am not too concerned about feeler gage at this point as the boat has been on the hard for 5+ years but I will shoot for 5 to 7 thousandths just to get close. In a perfect world I'll get a tow to the dock and just not start the motor... Let the boat relax and then finish alignment.

    I still need to buy a new prop and with the A4 I am probably going to buy the Indigo prop. What's $350 at this point?

    Moving slow, but moving. I need to publish a realistic punchlist to hit the water. There will be things still to do, but no major mechanical issues are left basically, except for replacing the alternator, draining bad gas and refilling, changing oil and checking thermostat while running motor in a bucket.

    Non-critical items include polishing toe rails, cockpit and cabin roof, around non-skid. Then Kiwi-Grip cockpit sole. Finish installing horn. Wire in-mast lighting circuits. Buy new furling 135, (no everyone, I don't want a 150... :) ).

    Okay, I know more stuff will come up. Like this one: LAUNCH THE DARNED GIRL ALREADY!!!!!

    Stay tuned.
     


  16. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I should add this last mount was the most "fun" to install. Let me explain.

    Tonight's mount #4 was aft port.

    To install it is to wriggle your whole body down into the port cockpit lazarette. This is awkward, but after doing it a few times becomes a learned sequence. Thing is, tonight to get where you need to be is to go in differently. Backwards....

    After full insertion to get to the mount, my feet were stuck through a transom access to the exhaust fitting. My head was tucked in under the air-source, (window unit) AC installed at the wet bar. I had two small site lines to see both bolt holes to get them started, and the forward-most bolt went down a rachet click at a time. No more tool swing room than that.

    To top it off I told my wife I would keep cell phone handy in case I got stuck. I didn't keep it handy. It's nice to say it all ended well and I'm out of the boat and showered for the eve.

    More to follow
     


  17. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Still plodding along. Family life has an amazing way of eating up boat time. Still, progress.

    I have drained the gas tank of about 8 gallons of what used to be gasoline. It was clean, with no water/alcohol separation, and I had hit it with sta-bil a few times over 5 years, but it still had "that" smell. No point in gumming up the carb with it.

    While at it I replaced the wonky old "can't tell on from off" fuel valve with a quarter-turn ball valve.

    Interesting thing to ponder. With the fuel out of the tank it became VERY evident the tabbing bonding the tank into the boat had broken loose. When the boat was new they simply laid maybe two thin layers of frp up the side, attempting to bond directly to the tank surface. The newly empty the tank really rattles around. The bond is gone between the tabbing and the tank.

    I am on a small lake with no Marina. On-water fuel is available but hours that the pump works are spotty. I am seriously considering removing the factory tank from the boat or simply tossing in some acetone to flash off the volatile contents and then permanently de-commissioning it when dry. Those who know the C27 know the aft laz has two fuel tank locations molded in. It would be a very simple thing to plumb in an outboard-style fuel line to draw from a pair of removable 6-gallon tanks. My only fear is gravity. I don't want to flood the carb as a result of a faulty float valve.

    It seems reasonable that I could install a solenoid-controlled shutoff valve that only opened when the ignition was on. Thoughts? Being able to toss a 6-gal tank in the truck to go run to the in-town non-ethanol fuel pumps, (at about half price).

    Has anyone else re-plumbed an A4 in a C27 to utilize the aft laz fuel tank location????

    Reply at will please.
     


    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  18. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I ordered my INDIGO A4 prop from Tom Stevens today. Soon we will be able to apply motive force to water....
     


  19. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    Boat Porn... Almost as pretty as a new main.... IMG_8152.JPG
     


    Richie50 likes this.
  20. philwsailz

    philwsailz

    Joined Dec 11, 2008
    1,320 posts, 44 likes
    catalina C27
    US stillwater
    I almost feel ripped off. Although the feeling is actually quite good!

    Today I received my Indigo A4 prop. Work to do tonight! Yay!

    I go to Maine Sail's How To page and re-read prop lap fitting about 5 times. After work I went and bought my Prussian Blue and lapping compound. image.jpg

    With a sharpie marker at ready I put the new prop on the new shaft and marked it and then applied the Prussian.

    image.jpg
    image.jpg

    I'm done with dinner, got my protein in me... I'm ready to do some lapping, so I pop the prop on and spin it as prescribed in Maine Sail's instructions. I then pop the prop off to find this:
    image.jpg

    Umm... Yeah.... Do I have my sales receipt? I don't need that lapping compound... No way, right?????? I double-check all around. All the blue is in the two keyways. To be fair I was concerned when I laid the prop in as the Prussian Blue set up what amounted to a suction between prop and shaft. I almost got out the prop puller.

    Installing the prop was uneventful. I reapplied the sharpie line, placed the key in place and slipped the prop on with big nut. Snug down til sharpie is gone, back off big nut and install little. Tighten fully then re-install big nut. Easy-peasy. Lastly a cotter key.

    Dang it... I may be done with the fun work... Time to get buffing again... image.jpg

    image.jpg
     

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