And so it begins

[25yearslater]

Aaaahhhh, jumping crying out dammit. Well a major colossal catastrophe has occured. Apparently all 'Marine' Teak Plywoods are not created equal. There are two distinct classes. Class one is a structural teak plywood made with a hardwood core available by special order only through one retail supplier. I am currently awaiting the lead times and pricing. The other type is not a marine grade at all but usually has a softwood core and a very thin teak veneer surface and is often marketed as 'decorative' marine plywood or simply A1 marine plywood. There is a huge difference in the compressive and shear load carrying capability of the two. So as my error becomes painfully obvious, grab an education at my expense, any true marine plywood will be stamped with BS1088 or have Lloyds certiication or it's pretty much good for nothing on a boat. Oh well as the saying goes, "I do it nice, 'cause I do it twice." Shrats.

 

[Indysailor]

Oh, that's gotta hurt. I've been thinking about replacing mine next year, so this is good to know for sure. Then again, I'm not particularly interested in keeping the teak and have been wondering about something inorganic.

 

[25yearslater]

Hurt isn't the word I'd use Indy. I'm livid over this. When I talked to my supplier, even they were distraught that this is such a low quality product. At 196.00 per 4 X 8 sheet, 3 sheets is a horrifying blunder. Well anyway I'm glad the error was caught, even by mistake, before the boat went back to the water. What a disaster that would have been. So undaunted I'm looking at Okoume-Joubert BS1088 which has the stamp on each sheet. 153.00 per sheet as opposed to 365.00 per sheet and massive lead times for 1088 teak. Much as I love teak, I don't love it 1200.00 dollars worth. That kind of money is reserved for the new toe rails, hatch sliders and handrails. As a side note BS6566 is the certification for exterior marine plywood. On the plus side I have a really great set of patterns for all the woodwork in an Oday 27.

 

[jibes138]

Alternative

I know you're trying to restore it to "original" condition but why not consider a standard marine plywood without the teak, so you get the strength without huge cost, and then use a sheet of formica for the surface? I think a white vertical surface would look just as good as the teak and make the interior brighter from the reflected light. I know a guy that painted the bulkheads on his Gulfstar 41 white because it had that horrible looking fake wood veneer on it and even the paint came out pretty good.

Who put that really attractive orange surface in your head vanity? It must have been hippies from Frisco?

 

[25yearslater]

Hi there jibes138. Too late. Ding, Ding. Boat Babe carry a card with a big 2 on it will ya. Round two. Ok so anyway true teak marine plywood that is structural ain't happening. Entre s'il vous plait M. Guy Joubert. Considered the best marine plywood in the world we have some pics of the amazing stuff complete with what to look for. It's actually Okoume (pronounced-Oh coo may) and is labeled umpteen ways with it's certification. While it may not be totally original it's close enough. My friends at Pittsford Lumber have been great through this mishap. They have researched any way to salvage the teak but like me came up disappointed. No problem, they have offered to sell the pieces for me as they sometimes get someone looking for small pieces. So everything is stripped from YOT and is awaiting the new stuff. While at Pittford Lumber I was inquiring about some wood for the trim as the door frames shattered during removal and are pretty much dead to me. They were most helpful in assisting me in finding a suitable chunk of wood that could be turned into new door frames. That last pic is 8/4 Mahogany that has been planed on front and back. So, things are moving forward again and I'm optimistic that a repeat of the last fiasco is a miniscule possibility. Now as to the totally mod like wow orange, perhaps oldhokie64's 272 hippy glider previous owner somehow got a job at Oday as an interior designer. So enjoy the pics and look for these labels/stamps when you buy plywood.

 

[25yearslater]

Hey wait a minute. Wasn't the Titanic built to the finest British Standards? How's that for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. See my warped sense of humor is back.

 

[jibes138]

I hope you negotiated a huge discount for the Hippy Orange? They must have been on psychedelic medication and listening to Jerry Garcia's jam sessions when they put that in the boat.

hey I've used marine plywood for new dinghy floorboards but never got into the specs. It was pretty hard to find. I think there is a lumber outfit in Beaufort that makes marine plywood. From what little I know it is the same as any other plywood except all defects on each laminate are stamped out and oval plugs installed to repair it. Thus no voids anywhere in the laminate. Before spending all this cash and labor, call Rudy at D&R and see what they used in the OEM factory. Maybe the work you already did is fine and can cancel the order?? Okoume is great plywood. It was recommended for my sailing dinghy but I just went with regular marine ply.

Are you just going to screw the bulkheads in or are you going to upgrade the installation and also tab them to the hull? Might be a good time to bond them in. All the edgese of your plywood should be sealed with epoxy and I'd run it up the sides a couple inches. It will waterproof it to prevent rot. Epoxy on plywood ends up looking almost like varnish, use a spreader and spread it out thin and it comes out like glass. You can varnish over the top of it, You still might want to go with the formica. Easy to clean no varnish no maintenance.

 

[25yearslater]

Hi again jibes. I already bought the Okoume. Here's how this whole thing came to be. The first two teak plywood sheets had 3 ply cores and perhaps a .050" teak veneer. They were stamped A-1 Marine. They seemed light compared to the originals but I figured new techniques and so forth. It was when I bought the third sheet I knew something was odd. It had a 5 ply core and was stiffer. I then began to question the difference between what I had purchased and the originals. I went to the Husky Plywood web site and looked up the 'marine plywood'. Low and behold a spec sheet (posted August 2010) with the caution, this is a decorative marine plywood and should not be used for structural applications. It listed the core as Fuma. When I looked up Fuma wood it turns out to be Kapok. Now I was really concerned. Kapok is on the order of Basswood which is great for decoys and such and the expected durability is 5 or fewer years. I started weighing the panels and found they were 1/2 the weight of the originals. Alarm bells were ringing at this point as I knew these would never hold the upper shroud chainplates. What came next was to search out marine plywood specs. The BS 1088 kept coming up. There are requirements for core density (500kg/cubic meter or better) as well as durability ratings which list how long it can be expected to last when exposed to the elements without maintenance. There are also boiling tests where they actually boil the plywood in water to see if it will delaminate. Then as you mentioned the core gaps and glue types. So anyway, now I know more about marine plywood than I ever wanted to. But hey at least I can share the knowledge with others. Now the answer to some of your other questions. The boat came with that orange. Perhaps that was how I got such a good price. I'm changing it to white. I'm sure the tape deck I pulled out ran "White Rabbit, by Jefferson Airplane" more than once. Yes everthing is epoxy edge sealed with epoxy coating over the areas that are in contact with the fiberglass. Tabbing is being replaced on the hull joints with +/- 45 knytex and epoxy. And can anyone tell me what time is good to catch Rudy at D&R? I've called 4 times and can't seem to get ahold of him. Ain't sailboats great? There is always an adventure even when on land and that might just be why we love 'em.

 

[25yearslater]

A special Odayowners.com news exclusive bulletin. 25yearslater has installed the main cabin bulkhead. In one single thread viewers can choose between light and dark as well as grain patterns. So with that said here's what's up. When I applied the epoxy to the edges and tabbing areas Okoume turns bright orange. That's a color I'm trying to escape from. Taking Panta Rei's advise I headed to Sherwin Williams to select some color to tone it down. Seems Teak has an element of green to it along with the brown. So I decided to stick with a stock color rather than a special blend. Having brought a sample piece of light teak and a scrap of okoume the staff allowed me the opportunity to sample some different Minwax stains to see about what color I could tolerate. Selecting Minwax 'Fruitwood' yeilds a light teak color as can be seen in the photos. Not perfect but close enough. Application was by brush followed with a wipe of a terrycloth rag. I did this in sections as I wanted to control the color very carefully. Next was let the stain dry and two coats of Minwax wiping polyurethane were applied. This has to be applied by cloth and not a brush. So there we have it. Also up, the port deck faired and sanded and awaiting it's final fairing, and also the first gelcoat on the companionway bulkhead patches.

 

[Panta Rei]

I admire you for being so carefull. I used structual (not marine)plywood with Cherry veneer when I rebuilt my O'day 25. I keep the boat dry so It's still in great shape. A 37' is a whole different story. Thanks for the lesson on marrine plywood who would have thunk it.
Coating the open end of your new plys with epoxy will allow it to out last most of us. Be sure to keep the epoxy inside your boat. Epoxy is not generally UV stable so it will degrade in the sun even under a few coats of varnish. You did not mention doing anything one the outside but I thought I would say something just in case. Urethane on the outside in the sun and Epoxy on the inside out of the sun.

Keep up the posts. Great Thread

 

[25yearslater]

Thank you Panta Rei for your contributions to this thread. You are very correct in bringing the UV issue to the attention of those following along, an omission I made that folks should be aware of. Epoxy will break down in sunlight and must be coated as Panta Rei wrote. The epoxy coating on the edges of the interior woodwork are all located where UV light will not reach them. The exterior of the boat will be gelcoated with the deck surfaces reimprinted with the Gibco Flex Mold 312 'rope weave' nonskid pattern available through Mas Epoxies in gelcoat. The hull and cabin will also be regelcoated where the plan is to change the shear and bootstripe colors to gray and blue respectively. This part will have plan D in effect which is work performed by a pro. I'm something of a slop artist where liquid applied by a sprayer is concerned. In other progress, the woodworking is nearing completion and I hope to have some pictures up possibly later today. 4 sheets of 12mm 4' X 8' plywood is sufficient to replace everything except the galley cabinetry but does include the sliding door cupboard. I will also detail what comes from what sheet to ease the material maximizing layout for anyone else considering this project. In addition, I finally spoke with 'The Rudy' of D & R. Among other info, he was kind enough to explain the Oday hull liner process. It seems Oday bought the fabric and foam separately and had them flame laminated and then they were installed. One source I have found for reasonably priced foam is Rochford Supply. The staff there also suggested the flame laminating process for my proposed project. They will also arrange this for their customers. Checking the mildew resistance of various foams is quite a process. Foam technology has advanced remarkably since the yellow polyurethane days we are all familiar with. There are also several anti mildew treatments on the market. The best method is to keep the boat ventilated. So take care and I'll head for the wood shop for now.

 

[rajhnsn]

When you regelcoat the hull will you take the old gelcoat off first? Why did you rule out Awgrip and Imron paints?

 

[25yearslater]

That's a very good question Rajhnsn. The hull and cabin will be dewaxed and sanded with any imperfections repaired. I will not be removing the old gelcoat but applying over it. The advantage of gelcoat over Awlgrip or Imron is the longevity factor. Both paint types have limited repair capability or long term life. Awlgrip seems to have about a 10 year life expectancy from what I have been able to determine. Imron on the other hand is an automotive product primarily and my experience years ago in the military was that it didn't hold up well to the marine enviornment. We used to use it on the Page. Gelcoat when applied thick enough, say .010" thick, or 10 mils offers the opportunity to buff it out and extend it's life. There is also the intangible aspect gelcoat offers which I can only characterize as a 'glow' that isn't duplicated with paints. The paints shine but the depth doesn't seem to be there. The whole gelcoat process is likely to be more expensive in labor, but when working with styrene and polyester resins that are aerosolized a pro is the only way to go. Again great question. When refinishing a boat there are many factors to consider among them, cost, ease of application, shine and depth of color, repairability and of course life expectancy of the finish.

 

[25yearslater]

Oh yeah almost forgot, a big thank you to Sunbird22358 and gstevens66 for the Oday 27 owners manual. Happy Hollidays to all.

 

[25yearslater]

Okay busy day. First the layout of the plywood sheets.
Sheet 1) Portside main bulkhead, Vanity 3 pieces.
Sheet 2) V berth bulkheads, Port and Starboard Shelves, Hanging Locker behind head.
Sheet 3) Starboard main bulkhead, Forepeak V thing, Table 2 pieces.
Sheet 4) Port and Starboard Settee backs, Quarterberth Engine access, cupboard in galley.
This orients all the grain in a vertical orientation except the settees and shelves. Any additional stuff can be cut from the remaining plywood but that is minimal at best. I have the lads working on converting the owners manual to a more suitable format for download. And a few photos of some of the woodwork awaiting tabbing and the final fitting of the remaining woodwork at which time most will be removed for the hull liner application. Enjoy.

 

[25yearslater]

Just for grins and giggles, how about a side by side comparison and just ignore the ugly mug.

 

[DannyS]

What a great project and resource you're providing here! Our last boat was an O'day 27 and we loved that boat. Our family just out grew it so we made the leap up to an O'day 35. I made my fair share of modifications to the 27 that I thought I'd share, I hope you don't mind. I know you are restoring to original, my projects were modifications that took the boat away from original, but it allowed us to stay in that boat longer by adding storage space. I removed the vanity and sink in the head compartment and added a stack of drawers there instead. My thinking was that we would get by with just a single sink in the galley. This addition did take away the footwell on the starboard settee so this berth was just for the kiddos.
I also added a photo of our baby blue galley. Perhaps a step up from the psych. orange, but still not my favorite color.
Anyway, keep up the good work!

 

[25yearslater]

Hello Danny. Not only don't I mind I thank you very much. Now I have an original 27 galley layout I can reproduce. I must compliment you on the fine woodwork where the vanity was. I read your other post on the chest of drawers and actually considered doing that. I noticed the color of the bulkheads matches very closely to what I am installing. If that is original I guess I nailed it. I am always grateful for any input on this thread. As you said it is becoming a resource for others who have questions or are looking for ideas with the 27 in particular and Odays in general. At the end of this endeavor I intend to post all the materials and their associated costs. At no time should my techniques or choices be viewed as the only way to do it. A boat is a personal thing and as such should reflect the owners personality. Me, I guess I'm a purist/minimalist with regard to sailing. Again thank you for posting.

 

[DannyS]

Here's one more shot of the galley/companionway for your layout. I'd say you matched the color pretty well on the bulkheads, better than I did with the stack of drawers, but oh well. I also added a cockpit shot that shows a nice little tray that drops in between the seats. No room for a cockpit table on the 27, but this tray came in handy. It could slide fore and aft, but rails on the underside kept it in place side to side.

 

[jibes138]

don't do it

I don't think I would put that rotten fabric back in the boat, the so called "liner." Why not bond some strips of wood to the hull then use theexcess teak non structural plywood and rip strips of wood to make a nice liner out of wood strips, it will look like tongue and groove. I know a guy that did this on a gulfstar 41 to the v-berth and it came out quite nice. The fabric may be original but it was only done that way because it was low cost. I know you are going "originaal" but then you would have to put the orange vaity back in and maybe hang some peace signs around .