Tragic boat sinking on 4th of July

[RobertLangdirect]

Most failures are man-made and negligent.

Scott, Every summer some homeowner Puts a hundred people on a residental deck fifteen feet above the ground, turns on the music and the booze and the people start boogying and shake the deck down. . . .

I have a great interest in systemic failures. Most deck failures (I have seen many) come from home-owner building, and failure to follow code.

In the case of this boat sinking (that I refuse to call an accident), it was the owner not following his operations manual. I see this as a homeowner building his own deck, not following the building code.

Can't fix every stupid thing. But confusion is another matter.

Maybe the owner was confused by the sales brochure for the Coronado 35.

I could not find the brochure but I found the picture used for the ad. It said, in the ad, "How many people can you fit on a Coronado 35?"

 

[Anonymous 121765]

Guys,
It's not about the Captian's credentials, It about his JUDGEMENT.

Why are we still picking straws???

I find that usually big water sailors have greater input,. The bigger the water, the bigger the problems. The bigger the conditions. This was not a question of conditions, but rather poor judgment. I have nothing further to add.

The greater harm's way may be, the better lived & experienced. As I said earlier, "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." Why keep going OFF on tangents? Worry about your boat skills & the safety of those in your hands. The rest is simply bullshit.

We have disscussed this from all sides to midnight,what with all the ins & outs. Sadly, that will NOT change the outcome.

Remember the Concordia? This EXPERIENCED(?) captain blew it because he wanted to get his stewart close to the island he grew up on. At nite, on rocky shores and with the navigational system turned off. Do you see a difference, I don't.

Negligence/stupidity/indifference will & can have fatal results.

Aside of the REGS, the conditions, whatever, stick to the point........his stupidity took 3 lives, one of which was his son. How sad is that?

Please no need for response for my post, as I am done pleading my position here. I will no longer view this thread......Nothing personal, but I have never believed in beating my head against the wall.

CR

CR

 

[Maine Sail]

Maybe the owner was confused by the sales brochure for the Coronado 35.

I could not find the brochure but I found the picture used for the ad. It said, in the ad, "How many people can you fit on a Coronado 35?"

And to put that pic in perspective it is 24 people on a 35' boat and the 34' Silverton has THREE MORE than that photo... But nah, it was fine and must be the boat builders fault.......

 

[Ross]

Where is the WL? One strong gust and you will have swimmers.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Don't tell Sue...

Looking at that favorable ratio, I think I would get on-board. And we don't know if there are more hiding down below ....

 

[weinie]

The boat in question:

 

[MrBill_FLL]

Oh Man, I have to wonder how everyone fit on that boat.

 

[Maine Sail]

Oh Man, I have to wonder how everyone fit on that boat.

Yeah that's just TWO people now imagine 25 MORE!!!!

 

[Ross]

Interestingly the worker are not wearing PFD's.

 

[FourPoints]

Yeah that's just TWO people now imagine 25 MORE!!!!

something like this I'd imagine...

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The morning news talks about "determining if the boat was overloaded" as if raising the boat and looking at it is going to shed some light. What are they going to do with the vessel to tell us something that isn't known already?

 

[anchorclanker]

Perhaps the USCG should shed some light on their own formulas that would allow that kind of overloading. Their formula of length times width divided by 15, would allow 31 people aboard a boat that size.

And no one answered why a boat of that caliber has no flotation. Whether required or not is beside the point, its sold as a top line boat. It should not have simply rolled and went down.

 

[anchorclanker]

What are they going to do with the vessel to tell us something that isn't known already?

One thing they could find, is if that kind of load could have allowed it to take on water somewhere, where it otherwise would not have. Any additional load, especially a sloshing load, could make it completely impossible to control.

 

[RobertLangdirect]

... no one answered why a boat of that caliber has no flotation . . .

?

Why would a boat of that size need flotation?

My 31-foot pearson has no flotation, other than its hull. However, it is designed such that with four of us on the boat, you can tip the boat until the tip of the mast is in the water, and the boat remains watertight. At that point, the companionway will be running parallel to the water, with the water level about a foot or so below the companion way.

But that is with FOUR aboard. I suspect that the weight or 20-some people would push the campanion way below the surface, and she would then sink like 6000 pounds of fiberglass and lead.

 

[Sail123]

wiener,
actually, I'm actually in favor of a boating license. There should be some basic test of skills to operate a boat.

I see it all the time. people with more money than brains, buying boats and learning by trial an error.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Lol

 

[HukilauMike]

View attachment 54312

something like this I'd imagine...

Thanks for putting this into perspective. Some other posters have suggested that 27 people on a boat that size isn't so outrageous because powerboats have inherently more internal space than sailboats. But that type of thinking ignores the fact that these people were going out to see fireworks; they were all going to be on deck. And beyond that, I am thinking that they would all be concentrated on the one side of the boat that affords the best view of the show.

I see Scott's point about requiring a safe loading placard on recreational boats (although I think it would be of limited value because of the varied conditions a boat sees, as well as the different weights we all lug around), but to me, its irrelevant here. The real question is whether this was one of those events where even though everyone acts reasonably and within the bounds of good judgment, something bad still happens.

Granted, there are big gray areas in defining "acting reasonably", and "within the bounds of good judgment". Based on what little I know about what happened, I don't think the captain was acting reasonably by loading 27 people on that boat, knowing that they would be all on deck.

However, if we find that prior to this particular evening, the captain had consulted with Silverton and inquired about the loading capacity and was told that the boat could hold 27 people, or that he had experience carrying that many people before in rougher conditions and the boat had been stable, then I might be persuaded that he was acting reasonably. Failing that however, I don't see how he evades responsibility for this fatal mistake.

 

[FourPoints]

And no one answered why a boat of that caliber has no flotation.

Because only boats of small "caliber" have flotation, the amount of flotation required for a large (heavy) boat of this "caliber" would take up a lot of space.

 

[Tim R.]

Because only boats of small "caliber" have flotation, the amount of flotation required for a large (heavy) boat of this "caliber" would take up a lot of space.

Not necessarily true. My father-in-laws Etap 39 has a cored hull that will keep the boat afloat if holed.

 

[Sail123]

In the time it took us to make this huge thread:

-------------------------------------

Several fathers forgot their babies to cook in their hot cars, baking in the sun.

One bright college boy tossed himself off his 11 story dorm building with a 5 page suicide note saying he could not tolerate life anymore with uncontrollable blushing of his face in public.

Fifteen people called 911 because the drive thru got the order wrong.

A homeowner had to tear down his new house he just built because it was ten feet too far to the left and city code would not allow it.

Several people died from police tazzering them.

Wife keeps dead husband in home years so she has someone to watch NASCAR with on TV.

-------------------------------------


Do we really want to live in a world where big brother sets laws after laws in an effort to protect every possible accident, mishap, error, or act of bad judgment?

We live in a world where people die. Plain and simple. While the deaths of those children was tragic, stupidly goes on, life goes on.

More laws in my life to protect me from myself? Will that really increase the quality of my life?

 

[anchorclanker]

?

Why would a boat of that size need flotation?

Those kids might have lived if the boat hadn't taken them down with it.