3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada race.

zeehag · May 1, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

too many small bits to be only a freighter hit
why did witness not call some forces into play when witnessing a problem?? vhf is free...
tracker spot doesnt tell ye accurately where ye are--is off by over 100 yards, i have found. remember mine showed i sailed thru cedros island??? really a true course, isnt it....
propane doesnt necessarily make flame when it blows. i helped survey a situation of propane damage to a boat without any sign of scorching--deck was removed nicely from hull. no burn. the owner of that boat was sent over transom in a somersault.
debris was too far from island to be a surf line problem--remember the southerly drift--as in current still running southward , not northward, on west coast.
this seems to have been a multiple situational problem--perhaps hit by freighter , altho there are no shipping lanes where the spot tracker continued to show as track...the freighters donot travel that close to coronados--they pass on the far side from land.
so, as the tracker continued to show course not taken, and as the witness failed to call a pan pan or mayday wither, and since the bits are way too small for merely a feighter hit, and the helmsman is stillmissing, methinks there wwre mor ethan one force involved in this mystery. also--WHERE DID THE HELMSMAN GO???? is he some mile north or now floating under surface of ocean moving southward....
hit and dragged by the freighter?? WHY DID THE WITNESS NOT CAL FOR HELP WHEN WATCHING THIS TRAVESTY???
yes there are scrapes on the deceased crews' backs--could have been made post hit by something from the boat or made during the explosion, if there was one of those. propane blows--is our duty to make sure it does so in a safe and orderly fashion. but, if hit by a freighter,, it will blow, if in the right place for contact with steel bits .
rip, aegean...may someone figure the mystery properly.

LuzSD · May 1, 2012

BTW: It was mentioned earlier by someone that they would wear their vest in the cabin. I thought that was frowned upon because of the chance of getting stuck in the cabin if it fills with water.[/quote]

ohh, good point!! I talked to a gal on a fishing boat that capsized in Mission bay a couple years ago and that is exactly what happened to the skipper...... if it hadn't been for the knife she'd given him a couple weeks earlier, it might have turned out differently than it did. Difference is that on most of the races we all do, the cabin is not closed up... so, yes we could get trapped but not as likely to be completely unable to get out from under.

rfrye1 · May 1, 2012

A propane explosion would have been seen by many,,,,,,,

zeehag · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

propane splosion may not be seen by anyone--they dont flash, just boom.

JohnShannon · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

I would think even an explosion would not result in "shredding", might pop the boat into some largish chunks.

zeehag · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

methinks we will never truly know what happened to them.

RichH · May 2, 2012

JohnShannon said:
I would think even an explosion would not result in "shredding", might pop the boat into some largish chunks.

A boat trapped against a rocky beach and with a high swell running is probably more apt to get 'ground up'. Unless the ship stopped directly ON the boat and the props ground up the boat, I would tend to expect large fragments. An internal explosion will mostly separate the top from the hull ... the weakest point in the structure.

My 'wild assed guess' is that they used the island as a waypoint, set the AP for that waypoint, the on deck watch fell asleep ... the boat got ground up on the rocks and all the 'floatsam' continued on the current. Its soooooo easy to fall asleep on the dog watch, especially on 'calm' nights, more so when a BIG swell is running, Ive even fallen asleep hand steering with the AP 'off'.
Their SPOT track seems to suggest/indicate this 'AP on & falling asleep' at the wheel, as it shows NO course changes for almost 3-4 hours. If they were 'ground up' by a ship the intervals of the auto report from the SPOT would have been closer together after any incident with a ship/whale, etc. ... all the SPOT reports are essentially equidistant all the way to N. Coronado Island suggesting that the boat was going at its constant max speed until it went down.

Very sad.

RobertLangdirect · May 2, 2012

RichH said:
A boat trapped against a rocky beach . . . 'ground up' by a ship the intervals of the auto report from the SPOT would have been closer together after any incident with a ship/whale, etc. ... all the SPOT reports are essentially equidistant all the way to N. Coronado Island . . . Very sad.

RichH, I ask, how accurate is the depiction. Can you see it online? What is the imputed speed from that track? What was the current. Is there any track after the dots connect with the island?

Some things I am curious about.

Thanks!

Robert

RichH · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

SPOT tracking and position reports are quite good, rarely off by more than ±100 ft.

I have no oceanic current data for this.
No track at all after contact with N. Coronado, Is.
All the recorded SPOT data reports leading up to N. Coronado are all 'equally spaced' ... suggesting constant speed.

See post #35 on how to 'navigate' the SPOT report/data/tracking site for this boat.

as stated previously when you get to this boat's "FIND.ME.SPOT" (link in post #35) report page click on the 'boxed' "+"'s in the left margin for the lat/lon/time for each report ... then if you want you can calc. the distance between vs. time. Visually/graphically all these 'reports' are 'equal spaced'.

Simply 'appears or suggests' that the on deck watch fell asleep, was on AP, and their waypoint was the island.

My practice is to turn off the AP and hand steer when I begin to catch myself nodding ... I hate like hell being awakened by the sound of the surf hitting a beach, plus I have an old fashioned wind up brass alarm clock that will (hopefully) wake the dead.

kloudie1 · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

Timing disconnect with spot readings? 03:36 GMT is 8:36 PM (20:36) local DST at Coronado? not 1:30 AM local as has been talked.. Has the helo been to the beach there? Did the spot fall out of the boat? Just thinking that after dismasting, a boat rolling under a ship hull would generate some debris but the big chunks would still be attached to the keel and would not be found.

EDIT : OK.. I see now that the time disconnect is mine own.. The note on position shows up here as "...03:36..... GMT - 5:00 (Central Daylight Time) ..
My interpretation was that it noted 03:36 GMT and if I wanted my time zone to subtract 5.. but I see that it is 03:36 central daylight time which is 01:36 over yonder. Still learning SPOT

RichH · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

The stamped times on the boats SPOT-find-me page are in EDT time, subtract 3 hrs for PDT. Whoever set up the SPOT didnt change the time frame to local/PDT time.

Click the "+" in the left margin for each 'report'.

LuzSD · May 2, 2012

there has been much conversation about the on deck watch just being one person..... is that normal for any of you in a race like this? It is not at all what we have ever done, in fact the first night we usually all have trouble taking our breaks. We always have at least 2 of us on deck and our soul purpose is to scour the surroundings and and identify what we are seeing and hearing. I find it difficult to believe only one person was on deck and I also am surprised about the use of auto pilot. We've never used auto pilot in any race but maybe we are the odd ones.

I sure hope you are wrong Z, and we do find out more about what happened here. I also am guessing that those doing the investigations are not going to say anything until they are pretty clear about what they think happened.

zeehag · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

they are thinking the boat hit the coronado norte and broke up.

Transponder Info Clarifies Aegean Tragedy

May 2, 2012 – Coronado Islands, Mexico

(Click on the photo to enlarge it.)
According to Aegean's SPOT track, she remained on the same SE course from about 10:15 p.m., April 27, until 1:30 the next morning, when she apparently hit the island. © 2012 SPOT

At least part of the mystery of how the Redondo Beach-based Hunter 376 Aegean was destroyed during last weekend's Lexus Newport to Ensenada Race may have been solved. Aegean's SPOT Messenger GPS track shows the boat on a constant course and speed for more than three hours — leading them directly onto the rocky shore of North Coronado Island. This almost certainly eliminates the possibility that Aegean was hit by a ship, which had been the most prevalent initial speculation.

Lt. Bill Fitzgerald of USCG Sector San Diego says that investigators "have a substantial amount of evidence of a particular scenario," and Aegean's running into the island was "one of the primary possibilities." He noted that the GPS track was just one of the pieces of evidence. Fitzgerald was also quick to point out that investigators are not ready to announce a conclusion at this point, but hope to do so soon.

The rest of the mystery is why Aegean was kept on a constant course toward a solid obstruction. It's possible that the crew was overcome by carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty exhaust. It's possible that whoever was on watch at that late hour fell asleep. There are other possible explanations also, of course. We may never know the full story. For what it's worth, Theo Mavromatis, who chartered the boat, is said to have been an experienced skipper, which is supported by the fact that he'd won his division in the Ensenada Race on two previous occasions.

A few people have clung to the 'hit by a ship' theory based on that fact that Low Speed Chase, which went onto the rocky shore of the Farallones during the huge surf of the Full Crew Farallones Race on April 14, remained intact enough to be removed from the island by helicopter, while Aegean, in much smaller four-foot swells, appears to have been broken into small pieces. It doesn't seem curious to us, as Low Speed Chase appeared to have been washed up on a ledge, while Aegean mostly likely was repeatedly slammed against a steep and jagged shore. It was something like six hours between the time her GPS signal was lost and the first bits of her were discovered near the island by Eric Lamb of Vessel Assist. Given a sufficiently jagged shore, that's plenty of time for a fiberglass boat to be left in little pieces.

The San Diego County medical examiner reports that Kevin Eric Rudolph, 53, of Manhattan Beach, died of blunt force injuries to his head and neck; William Reed Johnson Jr., 57, of Torrance, died of multiple blunt force injuries; and Joseph Lester Stewart, 64, of Bradenton, FL, drowned. Theo Mavromatis, 49, is still missing.

The Aegean tragedy marks the first fatalities in the Newport to Ensenada Race, which has been held for 65 years, and at the height of popularity attracted well over 500 entries. We think it's worth noting that most major sailing events on the West Coast — the TransPac, the Pacific Cup, the Singlehanded TransPac, and the Baja Ha-Ha have all had long histories without any fatalities. This is not to say that it can't happen in those events, or that there was anything about the Ensenada Race that made it unusually risky, but rather that West Coast offshore racing events are generally quite safe.

- latitude / richard

John · May 2, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

If they were in a race, wouldn't they have left their engine off? If that's so, how could they have gotten carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty exhaust?

RobertLangdirect · May 3, 2012

John said:
If they were in a race, wouldn't they have left their engine off? If that's so, how could they have gotten carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty exhaust?

Typically, you can run your engine to charge your batteries but the boat's transmission has to be in neutral and the shaft stopped.

Also, one could have a gas (propane or CNG) heater, alcohol stove, or other device that might produce CO or CO2 -- but then that would probably show on the coroner's report, eh?

I would think that a violent end on the rocks would leave debris scattered in the rocks, including scraping clean the surface of various edges of the rocks. It seems that the accident investigators should (and probably will) visit the rocks for a closer look.

zeehag · May 3, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

was it cold enough in san diego and environs to have to use a heater?/is generally not that cold there at this time of year. i think that can probably be ruled out at this point. why the boat was sailed into an island, whereon the surf is loud, gods only know at this time.
if the time was 2048 or so, was also able to be seen from the boat sailing into it.
so is a major wtf kinda thing. very sad and a big mystery. asleep dont cut it, either, as usually most souls are excited during racing situations, and cannot sleep.

RichH · May 3, 2012

Re: 3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada ra

If the on deck was not asleep, then the watch could have been pizzing off the stern rail ... and simply fell off and the boat on AP simply sailed off to the rocks all by itself.

One of the crew is still missing. When/if found if his zipper is still open will answer the question. A large proportion of those who fall off boats are usually eventually recovered ... with their zippers open.

gpdno · May 3, 2012

John said:
If they were in a race, wouldn't they have left their engine off? If that's so, how could they have gotten carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty exhaust?

The race rules allowed you to run with your engine with a time penalty. Other racers commented that the wind that night were light and variable with large swelling seas. Given that, one might be tempted to take the time penalty and run under motor power.

3 dead, 1 missing in accident during Newport-Ensenada race.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Attachments

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.